Scientific Logic for God's existence

**Janitor** · Apr7-04, 12:00 AM

Thank you for the warm thoughts. As it happens, I am currently listening to a music disc that I purchased today, by an American singer named Joni Mitchell.

It occurs to me that your secretary may have merely meant that the software of the Physics Forum website automatically sent an email to tell you that there was a response to your post. Nothing mysterious about that, after all.

**Canute** · Apr21-04, 04:44 AM

Dr. B

Does your theory solve the metaphysical questions relating to our existence or does it just push the beginning back to an earlier time?

**Dr. Raj Baldev** · Apr27-04, 08:17 AM

Dear Canute,

The Theory of Two Big Bangs or Theory of Parent Universe deals with the matter right from the inception when there was neither atmosphere nor universe. After explaining how the atmosphere was created, how the gases were formed and how they were condensed at the Central Reservoir and how the reservoir exploded and created the universe through the supernova balls, and in the end how our Solar System was formed and our Earth took the shape and became ready for life.

This theory explains how the Primeval Particle or Primeval Spirit or 'The Creator' became active at the center of Space scientifically and expanded in the eternal space and created uncounted universes, and thereafter inculcated life and energy throughout the eternal space with His genius intelligence. The explanation is complicated. However, I can say this much that I have also tried to solve the existence of life metaphysically separately in one of my forthcoming books titled 'Ape or Man who descended first?'.

Dr. Raj Baldev

**kjacobie** · May21-04, 06:05 PM

Dr. Baldev,

I'm curious what peer reviewed articles you have published?

I also noticed that you are the chairman of Media International Limited's "International Reporter" and you are also listed as the registrant for www.internationalreporter.com and internationalreporter.org .

I'm curious if this had anything to do with them publishing your articles and the the glowing comments on your book?

Please advise...

Ken

**setAI** · May26-04, 01:47 PM

every logical argumaent for "God" seems to require the "God" be defined as ancient alien/artificial superintelligence or the ordered entropic metabolism of some cosmic scale living system/organism- either way- it's not even close to anthropocentric human concerned deity- so what is the point? I think we all can agree that in a possibly infinite universe/multiverse that there are all sorts of ordered and intelligent systems incorporated into cosmic structure somewhere/somewhen- why use theological metaphores for low-entropy complex memetic/autopoietic systems?

___________________________

/:set\AI transmedia laboratories

http://setai-transmedia.com

**shrumeo** · May28-04, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by kjacobie

Dr. Baldev,

I'm curious what peer reviewed articles you have published?

I also noticed that you are the chairman of Media International Limited's "International Reporter" and you are also listed as the registrant for www.internationalreporter.com and internationalreporter.org .

I'm curious if this had anything to do with them publishing your articles and the the glowing comments on your book?

Please advise...

Ken

This is exactly what I was going to ask.

These "theories" really sound like a "scientific" explanation of Hindu mythology.

btw- It is generally thought pretentious to present yourself as "Dr. so-and-so" in a public situation unless you are a medical doctor, and maybe even then.

Please, Dr. so and so, give us some citations to your papers. I'd love to read them. I will not buy your book.

**shrumeo** · Jun1-04, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by setAI

every logical argumaent for "God" seems to require the "God" be defined as ancient alien/artificial superintelligence or the ordered entropic metabolism of some cosmic scale living system/organism- either way- it's not even close to anthropocentric human concerned deity- so what is the point? I think we all can agree that in a possibly infinite universe/multiverse that there are all sorts of ordered and intelligent systems incorporated into cosmic structure somewhere/somewhen- why use theological metaphores for low-entropy complex memetic/autopoietic systems?

___________________________

/:set\AI transmedia laboratories

http://setai-transmedia.com

Damn! Well said!!

**shadowman** · Jun3-04, 12:40 PM

Dr., I might pose a question to you. It is apparent that you believe in GOD. To believe in GOD is to believe in GOD's word. To believe GOD's word, that means you believe that GOD's word describes how the universe (particularly the Earth) was created. Here is my question. Why, then, do you need your own theory of how the Earth was created when it tells you in the book that you would believe in since you believe in GOD? Just out of curiosity.....Your reply will be welcomed.

**TsunamiJoe** · Jun6-04, 08:12 PM

maybe he separates his religious and scientific life's beliefs?

**kjacobie** · Jun8-04, 08:03 AM

why use theological metaphores for low-entropy complex memetic/autopoietic systems?

Perhaps it fits well with Dr. Raj Baldev's political leanings? At any rate, it is also a tremendous source of psychological security to THINK ones MIND can hold "GOD". Yet it appears that thought is based on the movement of MEMORY(the past), so it would seem by its very nature that it can NEVER hold the TRUTH-- Since the past cannot KNOW the NOW...

To see what I'm suggesting just consider: Where in the UNIVERSE does the PAST exist

Ken

**TsunamiJoe** · Jun9-04, 11:04 PM

maybe, its because humans are mimicry creatures.

Ok allow me to explain this.

Many, if not all, people past the age of childhood, cannot remember much from there birth/toddler years. Why? because i believe it is because we are unable to grasp the consept of remember something for later usage. Technically the world was created when each person has been born. But through historical documentation, we know there was a past before we were born. So throughout school we are taught this information and instructed to remember it. When we are taught such things in our mind we mimic what happened, thus we remember it, and it is stored in our brain. So to answer your question, the past only exists in creatures' brains.

But you may bring the point up to where if you forget something does that mean it didnt happen? no not at all. But in order for there to be a past there must be a present that conceives the past to be true.

Also you are probobly wondering what does this have to do with god and his exsistance. Well I will try to answer that: Long ago an event happened, the witnesses kept thinking over it in there mind, thus mimicing, but if you know things tend to be altered due to mankind shortcomings of being an "intellegent" creature. So they tell the story to there children, who then tell it to there children and so on. Each time a tiny alterartion took effect. So taking a christian example of when jesus changed water into wine, it could have been just water that was from a spring, that due to bad sanitation, they thought was wonderfull because it was pure. Now you will say but the bible was written as it happened. That is false, aproximately 95% of the bible was written after jesus died.

**Canute** · Jun16-04, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by setAI

every logical argumaent for "God" seems to require the "God" be defined as ancient alien/artificial superintelligence or the ordered entropic metabolism of some cosmic scale living system/organism- either way- it's not even close to anthropocentric human concerned deity- so what is the point? I think we all can agree that in a possibly infinite universe/multiverse that there are all sorts of ordered and intelligent systems incorporated into cosmic structure somewhere/somewhen- why use theological metaphores for low-entropy complex memetic/autopoietic systems?

Yes, very well said.

However I don't think Raj can be blamed for the ambiguousness of the term God.

Shadowman suggests that there is such a thing as 'the word of God', but this is a rather too literal translation of 'in the beginning was the word' , is only true according to some particular concepts of God, and almost certainly is not true in Raj's view.

I also do not agree with kjcobie that thought is based exclusively on memory. Even if it is, it is still true that experience is inevitably in the present moment, and knowledge derives ultimately from experience, not thought. We can also note that for Buddhists (and the like) the past and future are illusions and yet omniscience is nevertheless achievable.

To me the weakness of Raj's argument lies in the begged question of how God (however defined) came to exist in the first place. If this cannot be answered then the theory is ultimately mystical and not much of an advance on branes in the void.

**kjacobie** · Jun22-04, 11:21 AM

I also do not agree with kjacobie that thought is based exclusively on memory. Even if it is, it is still true that experience is inevitably in the present moment, and knowledge derives ultimately from experience, not thought.

Canute,

Just a quick question: Where is KNOWLEDGE(accumulated experience) stored?

Ken

**TsunamiJoe** · Jun22-04, 06:56 PM

the brain....

**Entropy** · Jun27-04, 05:26 PM

You will never find hard, concrete evidence for God's existance until God chooses to revile himself to everyone. If God had wanted people (of today) to know without a dought of his existance then he would make it well known and obvious to all. But thats why they call it faith.

My reason for believing in God is simple: someone supernatural had to start it all and give it all purpose. Too me anyways, without a just and loving God, whats the point of it all? Why go on? You're just going to die anyways.

Many people believe in something higher, but in something more commonly accepted by the scientific community, like super advanced aliens. As if they will fix everything. But why? Like humans they're still bound by logic and the laws of the universe.

Anyways this thread is pointless. You're not going to change anyone's basic beliefs over some forums on the internet. You're just running around in circles agruing over the same stuff thats been said thousands of times over.

I will say that there is one truth in the universe and people will either accept it or reject it.

**TsunamiJoe** · Jun27-04, 10:30 PM

i am high believe in everything has its opposite

somewhere a guy has a buck somewhere a woman doesnt have a buck

anyway i think long long long long long ago there was nothing BUT there had to be something because everything has its opposite great confusino within the universes subconscience happened and boom a god was created who quickly just made something to lessing the confusions, then this god maed another and another then made another god to help and so on, thus creating the universe and multiple gods