Smallest Dimension Hypersphere & Constructing Non-Geodesic Line

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical problem of identifying the smallest dimension of a hypersphere that can accommodate a non-geodesic line which does not intersect itself. Participants explore the construction of such a line and the properties associated with it.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the problem as a riddle, asking for the smallest dimension of a hypersphere and a function to describe a non-geodesic line.
  • Another participant suggests that a solution might already exist in three dimensions, referencing a spherical spiral.
  • A different participant acknowledges the spherical spiral but claims it does not meet the original criteria of the riddle.
  • One participant proposes that a three-dimensional hypersphere can be represented mathematically and describes a method to construct a non-geodesic line in four-dimensional space.
  • Another participant points out that the original problem did not specify restrictions and argues that three dimensions suffice for the solution.
  • A later reply clarifies that the properties mentioned are consequences of the solution rather than restrictions, and disputes the reference to a two-sphere instead of a three-sphere.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the sufficiency of three dimensions for the problem, with some asserting it is obvious while others argue for the necessity of additional properties in the solution. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact requirements and implications of the proposed solutions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the properties of the non-geodesic line, such as its ability to come arbitrarily close to any point without crossing itself, are derived from the solution rather than being stated as initial conditions.

Tyger
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This has an answer, but it makes a nice puzzle for the mathematically inclined so I'm presenting it as a riddle.

You have a hypersphere of n dimension and you want a function which describes a non-geodesic line which never crosses itself in the space of the sphere. Questions:

What is the smallest number of dimensions such a sphere can have?

How do you construct the function that describes such a line?

Enjoy. I'll give the answer if you get stuck.
 
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Can't you do it already in 3 dimensions? See spherical spiral at mathworld.com...
 
The Spherical Spiral

is interesting, but not the answer sought for. But thanks for the tip on MathWorld.

I found it by combining some ideas in a Martin Gardener Sci. Am. article with an observation by Marc Kac.
 
We're up to 65 reads

and no one has answered the riddle so I'm going to give the answer.

We only need a hypersphere of three dimensions S(3). Such a hypersphere can be represendted as the "surface" unit distance from a point in a 4-space.

Let a^2 + b^2 + c^2 + d^2 =1

All the points of that function will fill the hyperspere.

Now let

u*e^irx = a + ib

and

v*e^isx = c + id

where e + 2.71828 and i is the square root of minus one

and u^2 + v^2 =1.

As we vary x a nongeodesic line will be described in the fourspace and in the volume of the hypersphere. Now set r = 1. If s is a rational number the line will eventually return to it's point of origin and for some choices of s it may recross it's path. However if we choose s to be an irrational the curve will never recross or return because the same values of a & b, and c & d will never be coincident.

This curve has some interesting properties. Any part of it of the same length is indentical except for point of origin and orientation. And although it will never recross itself it will come arbitrarily closs to any given point.
 
Last edited:


Originally posted by Tyger
This curve has some interesting properties. Any part of it of the same length is indentical except for point of origin and orientation. And although it will never recross itself it will come arbitrarily closs to any given point.
Yes, but you didn't give these restrictions in the original problem. You just wanted
a non-geodesic line which never crosses itself
So it was quite obvious that 3 dimensions will do. Like dg said.
:wink:
 


Originally posted by arcnets
Yes, but you didn't give these restrictions in the original problem. You just wanted

So it was quite obvious that 3 dimensions will do. Like dg said.
:wink:

Those weren't restrictions, they are consequences of the solution. And the example dg referred to was a two sphere, not a three sphere. If you go to the link he gave you will see that it is very different.
 

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