|May4-03, 10:09 PM||#1|
I am now wondering, what is possible in this four dimensional world that has now been opened through OBE? I have read stories about people who have had many OBE experiances, and they talk about their "flights" and their "spherical vision" and all kinds of things. In this "fourth dimension" or "spiritual dimension" whichever you would prefer to call it, I believe that your mind controls your actions in a different way then here in our world.
I believe in a Spiritual world, I know a few very credible sources within my families friend's that have seen ghosts. I have no doubt that spirits exist, and in fact, I believe these spirits to inhabit the fourth dimension which is not visible to our meager minds.
When in this fourth dimension people say that they would think of something and suddenly it would happen, they would think "turn left" and they would fly left. It is more of controlling everything with your mind rather then with your muscles.
Anyway, I would like your thoughts on this subject, I will also attach below a couple of links to some really good books on the subject and a really good link about OBEs.
Adventures Beyond the Body : Proving Your Immortality Through Out-of-Body Travel
The Secret of the Soul : Using Out-of-Body Experiences to Understand Our True Nature
Journeys Out of the Body
|May4-03, 10:34 PM||#2|
This should be in the mysitics forum. not in the theoretical physics forum.
|May4-03, 11:32 PM||#3|
I can see what you mean, it could go either way however.
My post was asking about the possibilities of this having to do with the fourth dimension or another dimension, along with others.
Alternate dimensions, be it spacial or spiritual are all theoretical, so it could also go under the theoretical physics forum.
|May5-03, 12:03 PM||#4|
Actually it should be in "How to capitalize on people who believe in supertitions" forum.
|May18-03, 02:41 PM||#5|
Same for the "white light in a tunnel" syndrome.
|May18-03, 04:50 PM||#6|
Like most things, I prefer to have some experience before forming an opinion. I have a little experience with this one. When I was much much younger I became interested in this claim [actually astral projection] by means of a high school teacher. This seemed easy enough. People say that if you practice you too can do this. So, I tried it. I practiced meditation techniques [really just relaxation techniques] that are supposed to prepare one for intentional astral projection - an OBE. I practiced nearly every night for over two years. With each month I could relax my entire body more quickly and deeply than the last. After about a year I could put my entire body under in about ten seconds. I hovered around this level of proficiency for quite a while.
The next level of this experience came suddenly one night without any warning or expectations. With my body completely relaxed - which actually a yields a feeling of one's body being like a concrete slab that encapsulates ones brain - I was "pushing" with my mind to create a sense of acceleration as prescribed by the methodology. For the first time ever, I began to hear a buzzing noise that kept increasing in intensity. I then began to feel an upward rushing that was not of my doing; and the darkness [my eyes closed] went from dark to darker and eventually to inky black. Over a period of I think about ten seconds the three sensations of buzzing, ever blackening darkness, and of accelerating upward, grew more and more intense until I began to feel overwhelmed with fear. Then I felt a great impulse to recoil with terrible fear for my life. I suddenly found myself standing next to my bed wide awake. I had literally bolted out of bed without even knowing it!
The experience was so intense and terrifying I have never seriously pursued this "skill" since. I learned later that what I experienced is common for "first timers".
I make no claims that this was an OBE or a real experience in any way[other than exactly as described]. This is what the believers would say though. Also, true believers will tell you to be careful, that without proper preparation this can be dangerous. Based on my own reaction I could believe it! [I didn't say I do; just that I could].
|May18-03, 05:24 PM||#7|
Some renegades do propose a literal relationship here - such as Capra and "The Tao of Physics". But these ideas are viewed by most, I think, as loose interpretations applied incorrectly. I give it a few more points than that.
|May18-03, 08:07 PM||#8|
Well you could devise an experiment of sorts by giving the patient some exotic drug like ketamine to try and induce an OBE then you would place a screen between the patient and some unknown object on the other side so the patient could only see the object from say above his/her body. Anybody want to be my patient lol :)
|May23-03, 08:05 AM||#9|
Edit: The last time I heard anything definite about the cardiac units, I don't think any patients had claimed a near death experience in the right place and time so as to qualify.
|May23-03, 07:10 PM||#10|
The run-of-the-mill OBE, is where Quantum Conciousness and Reality cross paths, inside the mind of a subject that has a traumatic experience(most often a life threatning episode).
|May24-03, 03:23 PM||#11|
First I was wondering about the source of this hypothesis?
Next, using this explanation, how do we address the issue of memory formation and conscious thought both happening during periods of time that a person has no measurable brain function?
|May27-03, 05:21 AM||#12|
|Aug23-03, 04:06 PM||#13|
Have not read much up on it myself yet but somebody might find the information useful.
|Aug23-03, 10:41 PM||#14|
The out of body experience is
what is called a Simple Partial
Simple is a term applied
by nerologists to describe seizures during which conscious-
ness remains intact. It distinguishes from a Complex partial seizure
during which there is a defect of
refers to the fact that the complete brain is not involved as
it is in a Generalized
During the "out-of-body" simple
partial seizure the person is
firing of the neurons in the part
of the brain where the sence of
Proprioception is governed.
This leaves the person void of any
ability to sence the position of
his or her own body. Suddenly
deprived of a sence they didn't
even know they had generally
results in the brain doing its
best to account for the completely
convincing sensation of floating
by hallucinating themselves to
be positioned where it feels like
they are positioned i.e. hovering
in the room somewhere.
People interested in the subject
of out-of-body experiences should
do a thorough search on the sence
of Proprioception, Neuro
aesthetics and the subject of
Simple Partial Seizures.
The buzzing you reported, as well
as the intense fear, are both com-
mon simple partial seizure symptoms. The intense fear, espec-
cially, is mentioned with remark-
able frequency. It is caused by
seizure activity spreading to
two very important troublemakers
we all have in our brains called
theAmygdali. They are part
of the Limbic System where the
physiological manifestations of
emotion are generated.
The fear you felt was probably
on the order of ten times the
intensity of any fear you've felt
in response to actual threats and
the strange thing is that there
was nothing real to be afraid of.
Here is a short page on the amygdala:
|Nov9-03, 06:45 PM||#15|
This seems to ignore the measurable lack of brain function at the time of many NDE, OBEs. This just came up in the other thread Out of body experiences and astral traveling
|Nov10-03, 01:30 AM||#16|
For the same reason, you would almost always expect to find an EEG negative for seizure activity in someone who was not near death but having a Simple Partial Seizure with hallucinations of floating and autoscopy. This article by Dr. Devinsky shows that in one study only 21% of simple partials showed up on the surface EEG:
|Nov10-03, 11:12 PM||#17|
Well, I don't know. Are you aware of any expert OBEr's who have agreed with these interpretations. Just because a sensation or sense can be replicated to some extent, this does not mean that all other experiences are the result of some brain frenzy. This only shows that some aspects of the experience can be duplicated. For example, I can have an auditory hallucination, but that does not mean that all sounds are imagined.
This also assumes that the scientist is in the head of the experiencer so to speak; that he can give a full accounting of the experience. Obviously he can't. So unless we have someone who is well versed in the art of OBEs, or that has had an intense NDE, and that was also induced to have a seizure of this type, I don't see how we can know that one experience has anything to do with the other. I know that the people who's lives were forever changed by a NDE do not accept these kinds of ideas. They claim that in no way do the clinical descriptions agree with their personal experiences.
Also, OBE's can be learned - I am not aware of any uniques issues except for a few people who never have any success.
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