Heaven or Hell?


by Remnant
Tags: heaven, hell
mancerex
mancerex is offline
#55
Dec18-07, 02:24 AM
P: 1
"If you knew I lied, would that make me a liar?" Heaven should say yes, hell should say no.

or

"Are you guarding a path to heaven or hell?"

or

"Is a liar a liar?"
Kittel Knight
Kittel Knight is offline
#56
Dec18-07, 05:27 AM
P: 106
Quote Quote by mancerex View Post
"If you knew I lied, would that make me a liar?" Heaven should say yes, hell should say no.

or

"Are you guarding a path to heaven or hell?"

or

"Is a liar a liar?"
Sorry, but it is completely wrong.
You dont know who is guarding each path.
Werg22
Werg22 is offline
#57
Jan4-08, 05:28 PM
P: 1,520
I think this is a simple riddle. Ask either guard "Which way do the likes of you go?". Either will point at the path to heaven.
Kittel Knight
Kittel Knight is offline
#58
Jan5-08, 05:06 AM
P: 106
Quote Quote by Werg22 View Post
I think this is a simple riddle. Ask either guard "Which way do the likes of you go?". Either will point at the path to heaven.
Only if the liars always go to hell. But who knows?
If the liars can go to heaven, your question doesn't work out ok.

So, yours is not a good answer...
belliott4488
belliott4488 is offline
#59
Jan5-08, 07:37 AM
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P: 662
Quote Quote by Kittel Knight View Post
Only if the liars always go to hell. But who knows?
If the liars can go to heaven, your question doesn't work out ok.

So, yours is not a good answer...
No, I think it works logically. The point is that you have to ask only one Y/N question - i.e. can get only one binary answer even though there are two binary unknowns.

You could modify this suggested solution by asking, "If we were to assume, however hypothetically, that lying gnomes all go to Hell and truth-telling gnomes all go to Heaven, which path would you then follow?" The point is that you're getting one Y/N answer that unambiguously gives you the answer to one unknown (which path goes to Heaven) at the sacrifice of any information about the other one (which gnome is lying). That's the only way a problem like this can be solved, despite the many ways the question can be framed.
Remnant
Remnant is offline
#60
Jan16-08, 03:01 PM
P: 19
if honest gnomes go to heaven, where would you deserve to go? the gnome telling the truth would say heaven and so will the false telling gnome because he knows to go to hell so he would say heaven.. so both gnomes would answer heaven.. this does not resolve the problem.. same with your other 2 questions.. you would get the same response from both gnomes
davee123
davee123 is offline
#61
Jan16-08, 04:54 PM
P: 657
Quote Quote by Remnant View Post
if honest gnomes go to heaven, where would you deserve to go?
I think you got the spirit of the answer correct, although I think the wording still leaves some wiggle room.

For instance, you have not clarified where lying gnomes go. Hence, the gnome might interpret your question as "if honest gnomes go to heaven, and lying gnomes also go to heaven, where would you deserve to go?" In which case, the liar could direct you to hell's door. Also, by asking "where", the gnome doesn't have to inform you about which *door* leads to the final destination-- he could answer "I would go to heaven", when you instead wanted to know the correct door to choose. You also want to make sure that he doesn't answer something silly like "I would take the door to heaven".

I would clarify:

"If truth-telling gnomes went through the door to heaven and lying gnomes go through the door to hell, would you go through the door that's to my left side?"

DaveE
K.J.Healey
K.J.Healey is offline
#62
Jan17-08, 10:42 PM
P: 640
Can you ask even simpler:
Which door would he(nod to the other gnome) go through when he dies?
The honest points hell, the liar points hell, you go to the other. Don't even have to ask both gnomes, and the answer will always be hell.
Kittel Knight
Kittel Knight is offline
#63
Jan18-08, 08:57 AM
P: 106
Quote Quote by K.J.Healey View Post
Which door would he(nod to the other gnome) go through when he dies?
Sorry, but it is wrong.

It is not stated the gnomes know each other.
Maybe only you know there is a liar and a truth teller.

See the posts #3 and #16 (right answers there).
Alex48674
Alex48674 is offline
#64
Feb13-08, 08:13 PM
P: 70
Quote Quote by K.J.Healey View Post
Can you ask even simpler:
Which door would he(nod to the other gnome) go through when he dies?
The honest points hell, the liar points hell, you go to the other. Don't even have to ask both gnomes, and the answer will always be hell.
Not nessacarily because the gnomes would both go into an infinite regression because the others opinion would change on the other gnomes opinion which depends on the other gnomes opinion
lavalamp
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#65
Feb14-08, 01:22 PM
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P: 280
http://xkcd.net/246/
Ephratah7
Ephratah7 is offline
#66
Feb28-08, 07:58 AM
P: 62
Quote Quote by Remnant View Post
Let us say, when a person dies. He comes to a path (purgitory) or so. He walks down this path and gets to a fork in the road like a "Y". One gnome guards each path, one gnome tells falsehoods, the other tells the truth. One of the paths leads to heaven and one of the paths leads to hell.
*You do not know which path is which, or which gnome is which*

&You only have 1 question to ask both gnomes, and if you ask one know a question, you have to ask the other gnome the exact same question- in turn that will use up your one question!

What is the answer(let us say there are no flaws).
....Dont be fooled by fools.. Angels will lead you to heaven, not gnomes for heaven's sake.
lahmannrobert
lahmannrobert is offline
#67
Mar10-08, 08:29 PM
P: 5
You ask either gnome one question. If I were to ask the other gnome which way is the path to hell, what would he say? and then take that path. The liar would point to the path to heaven because he lies, and the truthful one would point to the one to heaven because he knows the other would lie.
phlegmy
phlegmy is offline
#68
Jun6-08, 07:33 PM
P: 119
i would ask

hang on how do i change font colors?
got it

"if i asked the other gnome which was the road to hell, which way would he point me?"

the trutful gnome, assumes the role of the lying gnome, thus pointing me to heaven.

the lying gnome, assuming the role of the truthful gnome, should point me to hell, but instead lies, and points me to heaven,



thus i collect my just deserts
mjolnir80
mjolnir80 is offline
#69
Jun11-08, 08:29 PM
P: 64
the actual answer is:
ask one of the gnomes: " if i ask your friend which if his way goes to hell what would he say"

im not gonna say why its fun to think about
neu
neu is offline
#70
Jul1-08, 09:37 AM
P: 245
1: Drop your trousers and ask them what gender you are.

1: "What is 2 + 2?"

infinite number of questions that would solve this surely?
Kittel Knight
Kittel Knight is offline
#71
Jul1-08, 10:29 PM
P: 106
Quote Quote by lahmannrobert View Post
You ask either gnome one question. If I were to ask the other gnome which way is the path to hell, what would he say? and then take that path. The liar would point to the path to heaven because he lies, and the truthful one would point to the one to heaven because he knows the other would lie.
Wrong! Nobody has told you the gnomes know each other.
So, each one doesn't know whether the other is a liar or a truth teller.


Quote Quote by phlegmy View Post
i would ask
"if i asked the other gnome which was the road to hell, which way would he point me?"
...
Wrong! Read above.


Quote Quote by mjolnir80 View Post
the actual answer is: ask one of the gnomes: " if i ask your friend which if his way goes to hell what would he say"
Wrong! Read above.


Quote Quote by neu View Post
1: Drop your trousers and ask them what gender you are.
1: "What is 2 + 2?"
infinite number of questions that would solve this surely?
None of your questions, surely.
Nobody has told you which path each gnome is guarding.
neu
neu is offline
#72
Jul2-08, 06:47 AM
P: 245
Quote Quote by Kittel Knight View Post
None of your questions, surely.
Nobody has told you which path each gnome is guarding.
No, they have. This is The fundamental premise. The one guarding hell always tells a lie, the one guarding heaven always tells the truth.

I've heard this "riddle" before and no-one ever says the obvious answer that you ask any boolian question eg what is 2 + 2? or am I Male? and that easily demarcates the liar from the truth teller.

Please tell me if I'm missing something here, as it seems so obvious yet no-one says it. I wouldn't reply on a repetitious thread normaly but the fact no-ones apears to have mentioned this I find bewildering.


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