God belongs to what existence category?

Alexander

Santa Claus made universe (out of clay).

Name for me one thing that can create itself on its own.

Atom. Place a wave in 1/r potential, and you got an atom.

Netme

What creates a atom? Or what causes it to appear? Saying that nothing causes it to appear defies the rules of existential law for nothing is non existent.

PhysicsRocks88

How in the hell do you expect someone to listen to a racist?

Netme

That is not necessarily true.. How do you know god exists under the same existential rules we exist by? If god were to create existence god would not have to abide by the same rules since he created it in the first place. What if existence applied only to our being and the being of god was true and unquestionable in terms of our definition of existence. If we actually have a creator, the fundamental rules it exists by cannot be known for sure which makes your absense of creator theory ultimitly unproven.

Adam

Coz I was curious...

Don't know how accurate it is, but there's something to read for a couple of minutes.

heusdens

I don't need to proof anything. If you claim God exists, instead it is you that needs to proof things.

The world without creation/creator, as a material process evolving in all of eternity, is a conceiveable, and from our inquiries on the material causes of a wide range of phenomena, previously unknow, we know from science the material causes. We know how life evolved, and how simple organisms in the course of time developed into more complex human beings, we know how stars evolve, we have some idea how the universe evolved from a previous more dense, and more hot and compacter state, we know what matter is composed of, etc. etc.
All facts that proof how good the assumption of materialism realy is, and no need for a creator there.

So the material reasoning is without any competition, since there has not been nor will ever be any proof for the existence of God.

The concept of God is too vague for it ever being disprovable, but that does not constitute one bit of proof for the existence of God.

Netme

What started the material process?
Surely there must be a beggining to all this and how would you explain the begginings of the universe if there were no creator to start it.

BoulderHead

How would you explain the begginings of the creator?

Netme

Time may not apply to our creator.

heusdens

Therefore existence might not apply to the concept of this "creator"

Netme

Ive already given a explanation for that.
You show no explanation of your theories and it looks to me like you just criticise others without good reason or thought.

Royce

Are there only two catagories of existence? I submit that there is at least one more that none of you have so far mentioned. The spiritual catagory of existence. I realize that such a plane of existence cannot be proved (unless your a spiritualist or mystic, shaman etc.) The spirit plane by definition exist outside of space time. It is devoid of matter and physical energy and time. The buddhist and other asian religions refer to it as the Void. Some christians think of it as heaven. Suppose that God exists in the spirit world but can when he wants or sees the need transcend it and communicate or influence the Material world as well as the mental world of existence.
How can I prove that such a world exists? I can't by any scientific, materialistic evidence. By subjective evidence I personally testify to it existence as well as millions of others possible including yourself, heusdens. This of course is not acceptable truth or evidence and I won't persue that line any longer.
How do I know God exists? Simply for the same reasons that I know you exist. I ask you a question and you answer with information that I did not previously know. I ask God, "ask and you shall know",
and then I knew. I knew the complete answer, knew it to be true and knew many if not all of the implications and ramifications of the answer. That for me was enough 'kicking the rock' to be sure it existed though I've done it many times.
Is this enought to prove that God exists? No, not by any means other than to myself.
Am I self delusional? Possibly but I can't figure out how I deluded myself into knowing and understanding something that I did not know or understand before. Am I a liar? Possibly, but prove it. Can you reproduce the experiment and get the same or comperable results to validate my experience? I don't know. Try it and see. Ask a question of God. Meditate or contemplate or do nothing about it for a while and see for yourself if your question is answered. Let me know.

Netme

What praying or meditating does is it forces you to focus on certain things And to help you think more clearly that is all.

Royce

No that is not all.
First praying is the opposite of meditation. When we pray we talk to God. When we meditate God talks to us. I've said this before in other posts but it bears repeating.
I am talking about actually coming to know previously unknown things. Actually gaining new information as well as understanding.

One thing I do want to point out and make absoluely clear is that I am not talking about seeing or predicting the future or asking God or whatever what will be oe what will come to pass.

heusdens

Royce:
Like I alreay explained, we can distinguish between material existence and that of consciousness, mental existence, but fact is, that the second is dependend on the first. So, I could as well state there is only one category of existence, which is material existence.

We can of course create as many catagories of existence as we need or find usefull, in our mind. This doesn't mean that something out of material existence does exist, but only we can think about it.

About asking question and getting answers. I know I can ask myself a question, and dig into my consciousness. But even when labelling this experience as "asking God", still I don't see any reason to suspect that outside of my mind, God exists.

It is not possible to proof that something that doesn't exist, does not exist, so I would not try the impossible.

Royce

If, as you say, heusdens, that all that exists is material and consciousness is nothing more that a product of the material universe and that is the all inclusive everything that is, then, of course, you are right. The discussion is now ended as are most philosophical discussions. It is all material and the imaterial is, in a word, immaterial ie. nonexistant and irrelative.

The absaence of proof does not prove anything, however, especially when we refuse to look for proof; or, if it does show up, refuse to accept it and continue to deny its existance.