Does intravenous hydrogen peroxide cure bird flu?

*-RA-*

Check out this site; http://www.truthmed.org/ its about cheap alternative treatments that have been tried to cure bird flu. They make a very good case for hydrogen peroxide treatment of bird flu. I'm not sure what to think of it, if its true then drug companies are pulling a very unethical swindle, but on the other hand the above website does have a lot of support from various academics, including Albert Szent-Györgyi, MD, Ph.D. (Winner of the Nobel Prize), Linus Pauling, Ph.D. - (The only person in history to win two unshared Nobel Prizes) and many other nobel winners and scientists.

I'm stuck in the middle on this. On one side you have the American Cancer Society (ACS) saying that "Hydrogen peroxide injections can have dangerous side effects. High blood levels of hydrogen peroxide can create oxygen bubbles that block blood flow and cause gangrene and death. Destruction of blood cells has also been reported after intravenous injection of hydrogen peroxide." - without citing any cases I should add

but then you have the fact that in countries like Germany, Russia, and even Cuba, they use these hydrogen peroxide and oxygen therapies, which are an accepted part of the medical mainstream. Apparently physicians who have tried to utilize these therapies in America are often harassed by local medical societies and threatened with loss of license.

what are peoples thoughts on this treatment? trustworthy?

TVP45

Quote by -RA-

Check out this site; http://www.truthmed.org/ its about cheap alternative treatments that have been tried to cure bird flu. They make a very good case for hydrogen peroxide treatment of bird flu. I'm not sure what to think of it, if its true then drug companies are pulling a very unethical swindle, but on the other hand the above website does have a lot of support from various academics, including Albert Szent-Györgyi, MD, Ph.D. (Winner of the Nobel Prize), Linus Pauling, Ph.D. - (The only person in history to win two unshared Nobel Prizes) and many other nobel winners and scientists.

I'm stuck in the middle on this. On one side you have the American Cancer Society (ACS) saying that "Hydrogen peroxide injections can have dangerous side effects. High blood levels of hydrogen peroxide can create oxygen bubbles that block blood flow and cause gangrene and death. Destruction of blood cells has also been reported after intravenous injection of hydrogen peroxide." - without citing any cases I should add

but then you have the fact that in countries like Germany, Russia, and even Cuba, they use these hydrogen peroxide and oxygen therapies, which are an accepted part of the medical mainstream. Apparently physicians who have tried to utilize these therapies in America are often harassed by local medical societies and threatened with loss of license.

what are peoples thoughts on this treatment? trustworthy?

I think both men are quite dead and cannot support this website.

Winning a Nobel prize does not make one an expert on other matters; see James Watson's recent comments on race as an example.

When you say there are no case citations, you miss the value of review articles which often cite case studies. However, here are some case citations provided through ACS:

Cina SJ, Downs JC, Conradi SE. Hydrogen peroxide: a source of lethal oxygen embolism. Case report and review of the literature. Am J Forensic Med Pathol. 1994;15:44-50.

Sherman SJ, Boyer LV, Sibley WA. Cerebral infarction immediately after ingestion of hydrogen peroxide solution. Stroke. 1994;25:1065-1067.

*-RA-*

Quote by TVP45

I think both men are quite dead and cannot support this website.

They were the pioneers of this type of treatment, so their place there is sort of relevant. There are many more doctors/scientists listed there, and most of them are alive! (unlike the two I mentioned, not the best examples)

That websites you linked to were quoted on that site, i'll copy what thay said about those findings;

" * Without citing scientific references, The American Cancer Society (ACS) alleges that "Hydrogen peroxide injections can have dangerous side effects. High blood levels of hydrogen peroxide can create oxygen bubbles that block blood flow and cause gangrene and death. Destruction of blood cells has also been reported after intravenous injection of hydrogen peroxide." Without citing cases, the ACS further alleges that "The medical literature contains several accounts of patient deaths attributed directly to oxygen therapy." [28]

Proponents of the therapy refute these allegations:

* Hydrogen peroxide is present or produced by almost every cell in the human body, and is key factor in the immune system. It therefore cannot possibly be intrinsically toxic to the human body. [25] [26]

* When intravenously administered into the body, hydrogen peroxide breaks down into two non-toxic components, water and oxygen.

* Nobody disputes that high levels of hydrogen peroxide can be dangerous; Proponents of hydrogen peroxide therapy note that 35% hydrogen peroxide can burn the skin and is dangerous to ingest, while 90% hydrogen peroxide has been used as rocket fuel. However, the solution used in intravenous hydrogen peroxide therapy is highly dilute, typically 0.0375 to 0.1% hydrogen peroxide.

* There have been no large-scale clinical studies conducted that show that intravenous hydrogen peroxide is, in fact, dangerous. While no one can claim it is a proven medical treatment, the converse is also true.

* While there have been cases where families or patients have tried to collect money by filing lawsuits alleging harm from the treatment, there is no published clinical evidence to support these claims. "

It does seem that all hydrogen peroxide accidents happen with the 35% peroxide, not the 0.1% when delivered intravenously, which is what was the case with those two links you supplied. The only reason i really considered it was because they referenced this from the lancet which shows very positive treatment after a near identical flu; http://the-lancet-bird-flu-protectio...0Pneumonia.pdf and then this to show that both flu's are the same type of flu, http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n..._bird_flu.html

I still havent made up my mind on this one, but it doesn't look as if its going to be an accepted practice by the look of the opposition to it.

Moonbear

I wouldn't expect it to be a cure for bird flu. That's quite a leap to try to base this on a paper published in 1920 that contained NO controls! For all we know, half those patients would have survived even if no treatment were given...actually, for all we know, 3/4 or all of those patients may have survived if no treatment were given.

All current evidence indicates that peroxides have adverse effects on the cardiovascular system.

Here's an example:

Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 2007 Mar-Apr;85(3-4):341-8.
Hydrogen peroxide causes cardiac dysfunction independent from its effects on matrix metalloproteinase-2 activation.

León H, Bautista-López N, Sawicka J, Schulz R.

Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) causes cardiac dysfunction through multiple mechanisms. As oxidative stress can activate matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) and, in particular, MMP-2 activity is associated with oxidative stress injury in the heart, we hypothesized that MMP-2 activation by H2O2 in isolated rat hearts contributes to cardiac dysfunction in this model. Isolated working rat hearts were perfused at 37 degrees C with a recirculating Krebs-Henseleit buffer+/-5 mmol/L pyruvate, known to protect hearts from oxidative stress. H2O2 (300 micromol/L) was added as a single bolus after 20 min of equilibration, and cardiac function was monitored for 60 min. MMPs activities in both the heart and perfusate samples were assessed by gelatin zymography. Tissue high energy phosphates were analysed by HPLC. The actions of 2 MMP inhibitors, doxycycline (75 micromol/L) or Ro 31-9790 (3 micromol/L), were also assessed. H2O2 at 300 micromol/L produced a rapid decline in cardiac mechanical function, which was maximal at 5 min. A peak in perfusate MMP-2 activity was also observed at 5 min. The deleterious effect of H2O2 on cardiac function was abolished by pyruvate but not by the MMPs inhibitors. This study suggests that in intact hearts, H2O2 induces contractile dysfunction independent of MMPs activation.

PMID: 17612643

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

If you go to PubMed, and use the keywords cardiovascular and peroxide, you'll find there are 7281 references (as of today) that come up with that search. You can peruse those and see for yourself that the vast majority of current evidence indicates this is a deleterious molecule, at least for cardiovascular function.

*-RA-*

Thanx for the info, OK, you have convinced me that Hydrogen peroxide is probably not a very safe treatment. The main reason i considered it is because the treatment was so cheap i could not see how anyone could be making money out of a scam. I suppose the fact that their main paper was done back in 1920 shows they have not been able to reproduce it recently. Sad, it did seem too good to be true.

Their alternative treatment, Intravenous vitamin-C, i will presume is based on equally bad evidence? they cite another list of scientists that support this treatment aswell.

some brief quotes;

"[Bird flu] uses up vitamin C stores so quickly that the immune system is overwhelmed and the blood vessels lose their structural integrity: they leak so badly that infected animals literally bleed to death through those damaged vessels." Dr. Rima Laibow

"All of these acute viral diseases... kill by way of free radicals.... The magnitude of how much vitamin C is burned up by these diseases [has been documented]... It is well established that certain symptoms are associated with an almost total lack of vitamin C within the body. Symptoms of scurvy include lassitude, malaise, bleeding gums, loss of teeth, nosebleeds, bruising, hemorrhages in any part of the body, easy infections, poor healing of wounds, deterioration of joints, brittle and painful bones, and death... [Bird Flu] has components of hemorrhagic fevers. This means a profound acute induced scurvy. The best chance for these patients would be the immediate administration of massive amounts of sodium ascorbate intravenously... I have not seen a flu yet that was resistant to massive doses of ascorbic acid." Dr. Robert F. Cathcart, III

"Because a virus infection will deplete the Vitamin C reserve, bleeding from the nose or chest would indicate an emergency situation... The capillary beds in lungs and brain are damaged and the virus can invade these tissues. The microscopic pathology in the brain shows thrombosis of vessels, hemorrhages and proliferation of leucocytes. These are signs of ascorbic acid deficiency... Vitamin C... should be pumped in immediately.... If the patients are not given massive doses of C... they may succumb. With the use of massive doses of Vitamin C, I have yet to see a patient not fully recovered." Dr. Frederick R. Klenner

I am presuming they have left some vital information out of their description here?

scorpa

Quote by -RA-

* Hydrogen peroxide is present or produced by almost every cell in the human body, and is key factor in the immune system. It therefore cannot possibly be intrinsically toxic to the human body. [25] [26]

* When intravenously administered into the body, hydrogen peroxide breaks down into two non-toxic components, water and oxygen.

H202 may be present in cells but it is as a toxic waste product, cells need to have mechanisms to defend themselves from this chemical or they will die. For example in the Hexose Monophosphate shunt in the Embden-Meyerhof Pathway G6PD is required to keep NADP reduced to NADPH so that glutathione can be kept in its reduced form. Glutathione is needed to rid the body of dangerious oxidants such as H202. I would think injections with H2O2 could overwhelm these cycles and lead to red cell death, the Hb would precipitate as HJ bodies that the spleen would try to removed, but eventually you would probably start hemolyzing. That is the role of H202 in the context of hematology anyway.

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