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Old Dec24-07, 04:46 AM                  #193
ccdantas

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Originally Posted by marcus View Post
Christine, You have done a remarkable editing job!
Thanks a lot, Marcus.

The whole CV episode was a complete mess. At the end, I was sad with how things ended.

I think blogs can serve as a serious place for technical or scientific exchanges in a friendly environment, but it is not easy, really. There are much more examples showing that it doesn't work than otherwise... I had to do some off-line moderation work. You must have time, energy and a sense of neutrality. I cannot say I have all these elements, specially the first ones...

Thanks,
Christine
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Old Dec24-07, 02:45 PM                  #194
Coin

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Originally Posted by Ivan Seeking View Post
We’ll wait for the work to get peer reviewed for a journal, and for those crucial testable predictions to appear, before making a judgement.
Incidentally, has/will Garrett's E8 proposals been submitted for peer review?
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Old Dec24-07, 07:09 PM                  #195
Count Iblis

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Originally Posted by Coin View Post
Incidentally, has/will Garrett's E8 proposals been submitted for peer review?
His paper has already been reviewed by many people. So, he shouldn't bother to submit it to a journal. Submitting papers to a journal is for most papers a redundant exercise as the preprint is the postprint anyway.
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Old Dec25-07, 06:55 PM                  #196
shalayka

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Originally Posted by ccdantas View Post
Thanks a lot, Marcus.

The whole CV episode was a complete mess. At the end, I was sad with how things ended.

I think blogs can serve as a serious place for technical or scientific exchanges in a friendly environment, but it is not easy, really. There are much more examples showing that it doesn't work than otherwise... I had to do some off-line moderation work. You must have time, energy and a sense of neutrality. I cannot say I have all these elements, specially the first ones...

Thanks,
Christine
I do agree that it was lugubrious that the conversation had to go the way it did, but it was becoming apparent that Lee Smolin had misstepped by giving unconditional praise to a paper that contained so many fundamental errors, and yet had no interest in describing what remained standing. All of this coming from someone who has such disdain for string theory as an unverified, unscientific meta-theory. The irony is ridiculous. Unfortunately for anyone who behaves in such a two-faced manner, I have a strong feeling that I'll be around for some time to come. I thought it was kind of cute that Sean Carroll doesn't realize that categorizing people as children is in itself an act of childishness. It just goes to show how high up in the clouds these peoples' heads are.

I suppose it's best said as "shut up and calculate". It's plainly obvious who's doing the talking, and who's doing the actual calculating.
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Old Dec26-07, 12:33 AM                  #197
Ivan Seeking

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Originally Posted by Count Iblis View Post
His paper has already been reviewed by many people. So, he shouldn't bother to submit it to a journal. Submitting papers to a journal is for most papers a redundant exercise as the preprint is the postprint anyway.
The folks at Nature seem to have a different opinion.
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Old Dec26-07, 05:05 PM                  #198
Count Iblis

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Originally Posted by Ivan Seeking View Post
The folks at Nature seem to have a different opinion.
Well, I don't see why the article would not be accepted in, say, PRD. The referees would perhaps only demand some clarifications on some contentious points. But papers are not usually rejected just because the referee doesn't agree with the author's conclusions.
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Old Jan15-08, 11:59 PM                  #199
Electron17

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If Lisi's model turns out to be correct, does that mean all of physics is essentially solved and there will be nothing left to do? Or will the details need to be worked out for many years afterward?
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Old Jan17-08, 01:10 PM                  #200
staf9

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Originally Posted by Electron17 View Post
If Lisi's model turns out to be correct, does that mean all of physics is essentially solved and there will be nothing left to do? Or will the details need to be worked out for many years afterward?
It means we have a LOT left to do, every question answered raises lots of new questions. In many ways, there may be even more that we don't know about if E8 Theory is correct. Some other people on these forums may be able to enlighten you more on this subject than I could.
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Old Sep10-08, 10:51 AM                  #201
ericchou

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Re: An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything!

Sorry! I have a question about Lisi's theory.
What different between Lisi's theory and Chaos theory?
Thank you!!
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Old Sep10-08, 08:27 PM                  #202
mitchell porter

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Re: An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything!

Lisi's theory is a theory about what the fundamental particles are and how they interact.

Chaos theory is about a type of unpredictability which happens because small uncertainties are amplified into large uncertainties. Such "chaos" is a very general phenomenon and happens everywhere there are even moderately complicated interactions. You should look it up on Wikipedia to understand it better.
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Old Sep11-08, 12:31 PM                  #203
ericchou

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Re: An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything!

Originally Posted by mitchell porter View Post
Lisi's theory is a theory about what the fundamental particles are and how they interact.

Chaos theory is about a type of unpredictability which happens because small uncertainties are amplified into large uncertainties. Such "chaos" is a very general phenomenon and happens everywhere there are even moderately complicated interactions. You should look it up on Wikipedia to understand it better.
Sorry!! If Lisi's theory is correct, then chaos & lisi's theory must be some relations between them.

and Do you believe the fate? I see something in the future, and it relate with chaos.
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Old Sep11-08, 09:17 PM                  #204
mitchell porter

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Re: An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything!

Like I said, chaos is a very general phenomenon. Every physics theory since Newton's gravity allows chaos. Read the Wikipedia article.
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Old Sep14-08, 04:11 PM                  #205
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Re: An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything!

I understand precisely 0% of this subject.

However, at http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/~distler/...es/001505.html where Jacques Distler blasts the theory in an extremely rude and inappropriate way, demonstrating an inability to interact like a human being and making physics look like an ugly, ugly little world in the process, he sure does appear to win the heck out of whatever argument he's having, at least to my uncomprehending eyes.

Am I correct to understand that Distler claims to have mathematically proven that E8 theory is inconsistent with the existence of third-generation fermions?

I also noticed that G. L. responds and gets into a one-sidedly civil conversation in which he appears to admit that:

1. Distler is right, though Lisi thinks there's still something useful about his theory, and
2. Distler has correctly pointed out another error in his reasoning (see the "WHILE YOU'RE HERE" thread in the comments).

Is my understanding correct?
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Old Dec31-08, 08:33 PM                  #206
Ivan Seeking

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Re: An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything!

In the news:

Did Garrett Lisi Have a Wipeout?
...Perhaps the longest public debate on the merits of Lisi’s theory took place primarily between Jacques Distler of the University of Texas at Austin and Lee Smolin of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Ontario, the latter of whom had been widely quoted in the media with unqualified praise for the theory. (Smolin says he was quoted out of context.) Smolin had also quickly written a paper suggesting ways to correct certain flaws in the E8 proposal. For the particles in the E8 theory to represent the known particles properly, the combination of smaller groups used to form the Standard Model must be embedded inside E8 in just the right way. Distler had demonstrated in his blog that this is a mathematical impossibility. So far as he was concerned, the theory was dead and not worth trying to resuscitate. Yet argument raged on over details of Distler’s proof and ultimately ended with neither side conceding. Lisi, incidentally, played very little part in these disputes.

Today the theory is being largely but not entirely ignored. Lisi, naturally, continues to work on it, as does Smolin. Lisi says that even if what Distler claims is true, it would only be true for the variant of E8 (“real E8”) originally used in his paper and that another variant (“complex E8”) would certainly work. Smolin argues that the press coverage gave the false impression that Lisi’s proposal was a finished work. “In reality,” he says, “almost every new theoretical proposal is first presented in a way that is flawed and incomplete, with open issues that need to be filled in.... While Lisi’s proposal has exciting aspects, this is the case with it as well.”
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...lisi-e8-theory
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Old Jan1-09, 06:12 PM                  #207
MTd2

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Re: An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything!

Garrett doesn't get any more exposition from the media or whatever simply because he, or his collaborators like Smoling, haven't published more about his theory. I hardly think he is ignored.
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Old Feb7-10, 10:55 AM       Last edited by atadaydin; Feb7-10 at 12:19 PM..            #208
atadaydin

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Re: An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything!

I think of a way to reproduce the CKM and PMNS matrices by taking quarks and leptons as vectors with 3 variables which is Σa Q_a e_a and L_b e_b respectively where Q and L are quarks and leptons respectively, a are colors and b are the generations. Then you may find that for particles it will be just w+xΦ and for antiparticles it's just the antiparticle of w+xΦ.
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