[SOLVED] The Pledge of Allegiance

Zero

Here's where it gets tricky. Bush is allowed to go to church whenever he likes, believe whatever he wants. However, in his official function as President, he does NOT have to right to claim that his personal views on religion represent the government, or this country.

schwarzchildradius

separation of religion and government is a fundamental principle of democracy, and for good reason. Organized religion can be very damaging to government, just ask Machivelli.

Zero

On the other hand, I believe there are certain people who would use the good intentions of people like Nicool, in order to try to undermine democracy.

Dissident Dan

I'm glad that you realize that it was added in in a religioius manner. I think (but I'm not sure) that it was Eisenhower who said something like "Now, every child will [something something] the Almighty."

But I find your saying that it is not religious a horrible argument. "Oh, my god" is an exclamation that just comes out. "under god" is not an exclamation. It has premeditation and meaning. If it is not religious, then please tell me what else it could possibly mean, and please convince me that most people take it that way.

Zero

If it doesn't mean anything religious, then why is there so much fervor to keep it around? No one has ever included 'by heck' in a patriotic pledge before, to my knowledge!

Dissident Dan

Good point.

Zero

So, either it is government-sponsored religious endorsement, which is illegal...or it is the semantic equivalent of 'darn tootin'!', in which case no one should care if it is removed!

kat

So...how do those who support removing "God" from the pledge of allegiance..in schools, in particular, as well as other places..how do you propose enforcing this? After having said "under God" for centuries..I don't find myself saying it otherwise because someone else dictates I should do so.

Zero

Kat, if you have been saying the Pledgfe with 'under God' in it for centuries(since it has only existed in that form for 50 years, and you don't look a single day over 150), you've got bigger problems, don't you?

And how does your personal inconvenience affect what the law says?

kat

Lol, sorry...now that I've had a cup o' coffee...make that decades! =)


My personal invonvenience is an aside, I doubt that MY anything has a great impact on national policy. However, how a law is implemented has a great impact, and I'm curious how you (and others) see this law enforced? Or is this just a feel good movement?

Zero

I say you implement it the way that you would anything else like this. You put out press releases, you hire a PR team, and then...you start throwing teachers out on their butts when they break the law.

Dissident Dan

Well, I wouldn't say to throw them out on their butts, unless they're belligerent repeat offenders. Otherwise, make the corrective measures something involving a fine and/or probation or suspension.

Zero

Well, ok..some leniency at first...like a 6 month probabtion or something.

FZ+

Er... I don't think you need to punish. Simply change it from all texts. If someone add the words "under God" when they say it themselves, then big deal. Just have whoever leads it or something miss it out. If they don't they are not saying it officially. The whole pledge is mostly symbolic anyways. I don't think they had much trouble when they added it in the first place, so I dare say there won't be too many rebel pledgers hiding out...

Dissident Dan

With all the stink that people are making about the Newdow thing, many people will probably feel outraged if "under god" is taken out and resort illegalities.

Zero

Oh yeah...isn't it wonderful when 'patriots' act like slime for the sake of 'morals'?

LogicalAtheist

The supreme court ruled that it needed to be removed.

What is the current status of this, anyone know?