Dyslexia in the sciences


by billiards
Tags: dyslexia, sciences
Ben Niehoff
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#19
Jan14-08, 08:52 PM
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I read (forgot the source) that dyslexia is actually the inability to mentally connect symbols to sounds. It has nothing specifically to do with transposing those symbols around. Poor spelling and poor reading should both be side effects.

Anyway, I've always been a great speller, and I've never really understood people who aren't, because it is such a simple thing to me. I suppose it might come from reading a lot, as Mgb_Phys notes, and from caring enough to correct mistakes.
waht
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Jan14-08, 09:22 PM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
So when you look at words and numbers they are scrambled and you can't make them out? That's what true dsylexia was about. It's about how you see things.
Dyslexia is not a visual problem where letters appear scrambled. Although, at the most extreme level this might manifest itself, but one would have to have other neurological problems.

Dyslectics process information visually rather than verbally (when hearing a word). So instead of hearing the word in your mind when reading, dyslectics visualize it. This creates a paradox where for instance vowels such "a" have no picture analogy. This in turn confuses the mind, causes a sudden break, and sometimes distracts the dyslectic completely. It turns out there is hundreds of words without a picture analogy such as "some, been, into" and so on. Because visual thinking is quick, dyslectics rush writing to capture their mental revelation before it grows into something else. This will naturally lead to making spelling errors, and other things.
Moonbear
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Jan14-08, 09:51 PM
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Quote Quote by waht View Post
Dyslexia is not a visual problem where letters appear scrambled. Although, at the most extreme level this might manifest itself, but one would have to have other neurological problems.

Dyslectics process information visually rather than verbally (when hearing a word). So instead of hearing the word in your mind when reading, dyslectics visualize it. This creates a paradox where for instance vowels such "a" have no picture analogy. This in turn confuses the mind, causes a sudden break, and sometimes distracts the dyslectic completely. It turns out there is hundreds of words without a picture analogy such as "some, been, into" and so on. Because visual thinking is quick, dyslectics rush writing to capture their mental revelation before it grows into something else. This will naturally lead to making spelling errors, and other things.
Do you have auditory dyslexia? There is an auditory form and a visual form. I think (but am not sure) that the visual form is the more common, where the problem is in visual processing of symbols (including letters). What you're describing sounds more of an auditory processing problem, not being able to "hear" the word you're reading, and even missing entire words when trying to comprehend written sentences.

One of the more classic (meaning OLD) ways that one could screen for visual dyslexia was to give a person a list of symbols, and see if they could say or rewrite them in order. This eliminates "bad spelling" as a confounding problem in the screening process.

In little kids, though, transposing letters in words isn't uncommon as they learn to spell, so that alone isn't enough to make a diagnosis. It's also a fairly common typographical error.

Edit: Oh! And suddenly your username makes sense to me.
RonL
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Jan14-08, 10:58 PM
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Based on comments in this thread, and doing a brief search on the webb has produced the strange feeling that, combining dyslexia, and ADD, togeather i see a revelation of some of my greatest problems. Mispelled words, and transposed numbers, that even when you read them again you don't see untill after posting.

Keeping thoughts togeather thru one paragraph is a challange, and having to reread words more than once, before you finish a sentence, really consumes the time. The preference of working alone rather than in a group.

Guess i have some study in front of me. Are there theorpy solutions, or any helps for old gezzers like me ?? -:)
Ben Niehoff
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Jan15-08, 02:22 AM
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OK, I have to correct this spelling error in this thread, since it's been propagated repeatedly:

Dyslexic is the adjective describing someone who has dyslexia. Not "dyslectic". :P
Andre
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Jan15-08, 05:09 AM
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Rumors that my spelling is bad, are exaggerated,

My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling, but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places.
SusanG
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Jan15-08, 06:16 AM
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Hello everybody. This is my first posting so please be gentle with me!

I'm a remedial reading tutor with a science background so I'm VERY keen on evidence-based practice.

The subjects of dyslexia, and the teaching of reading, are my passion.

For that reason, I've made and maintain a website which is a completely evidence-based guide to both subjects.

If you have time, do have a read as I think it will cast a great deal of light on both these areas.

www.dyslexics.org.uk
RonL
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Jan15-08, 11:06 AM
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Thanks SusanG
Looks like a very good start point for some study in this area.

As soon as i can string a DSL cable thru the attic to the sun room, i will be able to sit back in my best recliner, and enjoy reading on that BIG 50" plasma screen. With some of the other links to lectures, and online information that seems limitless on this forum, my arms and wrists, will get a break from holding up those big heavy text books. <GRIN>

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Ron
billiards
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Jan15-08, 02:05 PM
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Quote Quote by Moonbear View Post
It's just not their strength. I have a very good friend who is very intelligent, but the most horrendous speller I've met...it's become a joke between us. I tend to think spelling is something that requires proper teaching early in life to grasp all the rules. Dyslexia is not just bad spelling, but a learning disability where one sees letters jumbled out of order from the way they are actually printed. The people you know who are claiming to be dyslexic...have they actually been diagnosed with dyslexia, or are they just joking that that's their problem when they are just bad spellers? Someone with dyslexia is also a bad reader, because they can't see the words correctly.
Well, I haven't seen their medical records but I strongly suspect they were not joking. One guy actually told me he had to dictate all his exams at uni because his dyslexia is so bad.

For some reason I honestly had the impression that dyslexia was more prominent in the sciences than in other academic fields... although come to think of it, I do have dyslexic friends taking art and media studies. I guess I figured that dyslexic people were less suitable for subjects requiring high literacy (english, history, law etc..) and therefore tended towards the sciences (and other less literary subjects).

This thread has altered my view somewhat, I used to see bad spelling as a sure sign of dyslexia, now I know that is not the case it puts my observations (and my concomitant hypothesis) into question.
glondor
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Jan15-08, 02:52 PM
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I have thought I am dyslexic for many many years. The trouble i have is mostly with numbers and directions. Phone numbers are always a problem for me. When my mind "flips" as i call it I can end up dialing a phone number several times before i get it right. This only happens with phone numbers I am reading. It seems I will always transpose 2 digits. The only remedy i have is to read and say the numbers as I dial. If I do not do this, 8 times out of 10 I will get it wrong. I usualy get it wrong the second time I dial as well. By then I realise I have "flipped" and do the reading out loud/ dial trick. I find I really have to concentrate as my mind tries to flip back, so to speak, over the numbers I am saying out loud. It is an annoyance.
The other trouble is when driving, If my mind flips ,left becomes right and I dont realise it. I can actualy say to someone riding with me " I need to turn left here" and turn right and not realise i did so. Very frustrating to say the least. I have a digital compass and a gps system in all of our vehicles. This helps a lot while driving. I can get lost walking in a park. If I have to walk in an area i do not know, I get lost. The main trouble is I can never be sure which way I have turned in any given situation, because I never know when my mind had "flipped".
I actualy drove the wrong way around the great lakes once driving from Chicago to Toronto, lol That was a long drive! Needless to say I thought I was going the right way. I do not seem to have any more than average trouble with spelling.

Posative and negative numbers give me trouble as well, also I cannot learn how to subtract on paper. I have tried many times to learn. I do it in my head.

I am trying to think of anything positive about this condition, The only thing I can come up with is I can read upside down as well as i can read right side up, and I have no trouble reading at all.
lisab
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Jan17-08, 02:37 PM
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I have a strange experience with spelling that might shed light on this.

When I was in college, like many physics students I was terribly pressed for time to get through all my physics homework. I found that if I turned off the "thought voice" as I was solving physics problems, I could work much faster. By "thought voice" I mean I wouldn't think in English (my native - well, only - language). No language in my head at all, just ideas. I thought this was pretty cool until I noticed my spelling just went to hell. I also found I would struggle to find words when talking.

After school I had the time to think using language again, and my spelling and verbal skills returned.

BTW, the people I've told this to usually just give my blank stares, so if this seems odd to you, I won't be surprised.

So maybe the scientists who think in ideas, not language, are the poor spellers...?
waht
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#30
Jan17-08, 03:11 PM
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Quote Quote by Moonbear View Post
Do you have auditory dyslexia? There is an auditory form and a visual form. I think (but am not sure) that the visual form is the more common, where the problem is in visual processing of symbols (including letters). What you're describing sounds more of an auditory processing problem, not being able to "hear" the word you're reading, and even missing entire words when trying to comprehend written sentences.
Yes, that's what I have. Although, my diagnosis didn't specify that, just that I'm a dyslexic. But dyslexia is so diverse, and no two persons have same problems. Some have visual and auditory dyslexia, others have such extreme case that you couldn't distinguish it from autism. Alot of famous people have dyslexia too, Tom Cruise, JFK, Walt Disney, and even Einstein.

When I read, I can still hear the words in the background, but a mental picture starts forming and evolving as I read. I skip words quite often when I read or write and often misspell them at that. I have got into a habit now of rereading what I wrote a couple of times, and often I find big mistakes on every pass. I actually repeated English composition in college six times to pass, while I aced all the math and engineering classes.



Oh! And suddenly your username makes sense to me.
Heh
Looks alright to me
Evo
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Jan17-08, 03:48 PM
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Quote Quote by waht View Post
Alot of famous people have dyslexia too, Tom Cruise, JFK, Walt Disney, and even Einstein.
That's actually a myth, excluding Tom Cruise, they were never diagnosed while alive, how could they be diagnosed while dead?
waht
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Jan17-08, 04:26 PM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
That's actually a myth, excluding Tom Cruise, they were never diagnosed while alive, how could they be diagnosed while dead?
That is an excellent question. I quoted this from a book "Gift of Dyslexia" by Ronald Davis. So far I have not found him to be a crack pot, he developed different techniques to aid dyslexics. If he is found to be a crackpot, I will change my mind in a heart beat.

Although Einstein being a dyslexic on the front cover would help sell the book, but he is not on the front cover.
Evo
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Jan17-08, 04:41 PM
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Quote Quote by waht View Post
That is an excellent question. I quoted this from a book "Gift of Dyslexia" by Ronald Davis. So far I have not found him to be a crack pot, he developed different techniques to aid dyslexics. If he is found to be a crackpot, I will change my mind in a heart beat.

Although Einstein being a dyslexic on the front cover would help sell the book, but he is not on the front cover.
I wouldn't say he's a crackpot, but he definitely didn't check his sources. Or he may be one of those that says "well, based on people's comments and their writing I would say they could have been dyslexic". It is a widely spread internet myth that has unfortunately been repeated so many times that even legitimate sites are spreading the myth, assuming it's true. It's not.

The following is the definitive crackpot list of "Famous Dyslexics". That list is ridiculous, but this is how this stuff gets started.

Beethoven, Vincent Van Gogh, Newton, Galileo, Michelangelo, Leonardo DaVinci, Charles Darwin, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Andrew Jackson, Napoleon Bonaparte, Benjamin Franklin, Enrico Caruso, Gustave Flaubert, Sir Issac Newton, Edgar Allan Poe, Ernest Hemingway, Thomas Edison, Orville and Wilbur Wright, Einstein, and it goes on and on.

It's uncanny that only "good" people had dyslexia, I don't see Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Nero, Attila The Hun, etc... named anywhere.

http://www.dyslexia-testing.com.au/w...ous-dyslexics/
NeoDevin
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#34
Jan17-08, 06:16 PM
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Why did they make dyslexia so hard to spell?
mgb_phys
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Jan17-08, 06:30 PM
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Quote Quote by NeoDevin View Post
Why did they make dyslexia so hard to spell?
Same reason 'lisp' is hard to say!
dst
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#36
Jan17-08, 06:33 PM
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Edit: ^^ Freaky timing.

Quote Quote by NeoDevin View Post
Why did they make dyslexia so hard to spell?
And what cruel git put an 's' in 'lisp'?


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