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Can absolute zero ever be achieved?

by ffleming7
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ffleming7
#1
Jan24-08, 07:42 PM
P: 25
Can absolute zero ever be achieved? I this a theoretical kinetic energy?
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Danger
#2
Jan24-08, 08:15 PM
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It's more a theoretical lack of energy. Although we've come very close to it with liquid helium, I don't think that it's practically attainable. You would need, to start with, a perfect insulator, which doesn't exist.
nicksauce
#3
Jan24-08, 08:29 PM
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Isn't the point of the third law of thermodynamics that it is impossible to reach absolute zero?

Danger
#4
Jan24-08, 08:44 PM
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Can absolute zero ever be achieved?

Quote Quote by nicksauce View Post
Isn't the point of the third law of thermodynamics that it is impossible to reach absolute zero?
Correct, at least the way that I learned the 4 laws.
1) No matter how hard you try, the best that you can do is break even.
2) You can only break even at absolute zero.
3) Absolute zero is impossible to attain.
4) No matter how hard you shake it, the last drop always goes down your pants.
Rib5
#5
Jan25-08, 01:54 PM
P: 55
Quote Quote by Danger View Post
Correct, at least the way that I learned the 4 laws.
1) No matter how hard you try, the best that you can do is break even.
2) You can only break even at absolute zero.
3) Absolute zero is impossible to attain.
4) No matter how hard you shake it, the last drop always goes down your pants.
Number 4... ROFL
_Mayday_
#6
Jan25-08, 03:10 PM
P: 816
Quote Quote by Danger View Post
Correct, at least the way that I learned the 4 laws.
1) No matter how hard you try, the best that you can do is break even.
2) You can only break even at absolute zero.
3) Absolute zero is impossible to attain.
4) No matter how hard you shake it, the last drop always goes down your pants.

I hate that SO much.

If absolute zero is impossible to attain, then is it not found anywhere in the universe? Is it something that just cannot be broken, in terms of going any lower?
nightshade123
#7
Jan25-08, 06:26 PM
P: 83
if absolute zero is obtained the universe will collapse into itself...
Danger
#8
Jan25-08, 06:35 PM
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I'm not so sure about the collapsing part, but the universe as a whole is still permeated by the cosmic microwave backgound 'noise' from the Big Bang. That's something like 3 degrees K.. To attain absolute zero, you'd have to isolate a container of some type, and then pump out those 3 degrees. I'm not saying categorically that it's impossible, because technology continues to take me by surprise, but our current methods aren't up to it.
_Mayday_
#9
Jan25-08, 06:36 PM
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Quote Quote by nightshade123 View Post
if absolute zero is obtained the universe will collapse into itself...
Erm...why?
_Mayday_
#10
Jan25-08, 06:37 PM
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Quote Quote by Danger View Post
I'm not so sure about the collapsing part, but the universe as a whole is still permeated by the cosmic microwave backgound 'noise' from the Big Bang. That's something like 3 degrees K.. To attain absolute zero, you'd have to isolate a container of some type, and then pump out those 3 degrees. I'm not saying categorically that it's impossible, because technology continues to take me by surprise, but our current methods aren't up to it.

You would also need to have perfect insulation would you not?
Danger
#11
Jan25-08, 06:42 PM
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As mentioned in post #2, yes. I don't believe (just my opinion) that there can be such a thing, given quantum fluctuations and whatnot.
PiratePhysicist
#12
Jan25-08, 06:51 PM
P: 68
I don't remember the the Laws of Thermodynamics forbidding absolute zero, but either way it's still impossible to attain absolute zero. To do so would be in violation of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle as if a particle is at absolute zero you would be able to learn it's precise position and velocity.
Danger
#13
Jan25-08, 06:53 PM
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I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense. Its energy and movement would both be '0'.
nightshade123
#14
Jan25-08, 06:57 PM
P: 83
and if u get particles to stop moving what do you thing will happen to everything around it...
Danger
#15
Jan25-08, 07:04 PM
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Not much.
PiratePhysicist
#16
Jan25-08, 07:07 PM
P: 68
Really in order for absolute zero to be achieved, which it isn't but hypothetically here, the matter being put at absolute zero would have to be secluded from all other matter and shielded from radiation. Even if it wasn't it just means that you'll start slowly cooling other stuff too.
Danger
#17
Jan25-08, 07:16 PM
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Quote Quote by PiratePhysicist View Post
Even if it wasn't it just means that you'll start slowly cooling other stuff too.
Bingo! And by cooling other stuff, you're gaining heat from it.
staf9
#18
Jan25-08, 09:01 PM
P: 76
Therefore it's impossible to reach absolute zero until all atomic motion in the system (universe) has been stopped.

As has been said before, perfect insulators don't exist. If one atom isn't moving and there's an atom that is moving near it, the one that isn't moving will steal some of the energy from the moving atom and start to move.


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