why does my social life suck so much?

chroot

Quote by Cyrus

You can always find smart girls at a bar, you just have to know how to talk to them or they will tell you to get lost before your done saying your name.

The truth is that women, particularly in bars, have already made up their minds about you before you even open your mouth. If the girl is already attracted to you, your attitude, confidence, behavior, conversation, voice, and body language can all make her more attracted. If she's already decided she's not attracted, though, there's virtually nothing you can do to change her mind -- and if you try to change her mind, you'll probably just annoy her. You win some, you lose some; the trick is to know which are interested in pursuit.

- Warren

Cyrus

Not necessarily true. You can turn a girl on by saying the right things. Im not a stud, and im not buff. But I can talk to to women. (Something most buff guys CANT do).

I dress trendy. Boarderline gay. Girls LOVE it. Women compliment me on the way I dress a lot. Its nothing to do about how I look either.

Moonbear

Quote by Cyrus

Not necessarily true. You can turn a girl on by saying the right things. Im not a stud, and im not buff. But I can talk to to women. (Something most buff guys CANT do).

I dress trendy. Boarderline gay. Girls LOVE it. Women compliment me on the way I dress a lot. Its nothing to do about how I look either.

I think Chroot is right here. You give yourself the edge by dressing well, so women haven't dismissed you as a creep before you get to them. That, or they think you're gay based on your attire, so assume you're "safe."

As for Astronuc's comments on joining professional organizations and such, that's quite different from academic clubs in school (you don't need a club to meet upperclassmen, and I've never known any grad students to join undergrad clubs either), and the goal in any of those situations is more to make professional contacts and advance your career, not to engage in socializing and make friends.

Huckleberry

Quote by chroot

Well said, Moonbear. Also, when you join an academic club, you get judged on your words and your knowledge; if you're shy or aren't good at making conversation, you may fail to impress people. On the other hand, if you join Habitat for Humanity, all you need to do is show up every weekend and swing a hammer, and people will like you. You'll also get some exercise, learn a few practical things, and make a real difference in someone else's life. And yes, absolutely, you'll meet some of the coolest, most kind-hearted people at your school. Habitat for Humanity is also much more likely to be more gender- and major-balanced than any academic club.

And yes, bars are brutal social shark-tanks. Women go to bars expecting to get hit on by slobbering goons, and they're prepared to push guys away. You're fighting a pretty steep headwind. The best advice I can give for bars is this: don't ever do something (buying a drink, smiling, saying hello) because you're trying to get something in return (conversation, interest, flirting, etc.). It's incredibly obvious and turns women off. Instead, just be genuinely kind and generous, and don't worry about the responses. If a bartender is slow, buy the girl in line behind you a drink, smile, say cheers, and leave it at that. Walk back to your friends or your pool game or whatever. If she's already attracted to you, your genuine, laid-back generosity will just make her more attracted. If she's not attracted to you, a free drink won't do anything anything anyway. It's sorta like Pascal's wager...

- Warren

I agree with Moonbear and chroot. This is really great advice.

The biggest obstacle to social interaction is insecurity. It's hard to make friends if you never put yourself out there. Habitat for Humanity is a terrific idea! Or you could join a group that participates in some hobby you think you might enjoy, such as hiking, cycling or pottery. There are dozens of choices if you look for them, and they are a far more effective way of making friends than bars or parties, though that works for some people too. Go to places where you think there might be people you would like to meet.

Be aware when people talk to you. Sometimes people will engage you in conversation, small talk, and are essentially feeling you out. You don't have to be a great conversationalist, but you do have to be somewhat responsive. If someone asks you if they can borrow a pen then they probably just want a pen, but if they comment on the weather then they just want to talk to you. Be aware of the potential for dialogue, and don't pull your attention away from the conversation before you establish a connection. Before you know it you'll be hanging out at the pool hall throwing back some brewskis with your new friends.

chroot

Most schools also have "Venture Out" type programs that organize student hiking or skiing trips. These can be a great way to meet people without much "risk." You're stuck with them for a long weekend drive, giving you ample opportunity to get to know them and feel out any potential for friendship (or more), yet when you get back to campus you don't necessarily have to see any of them ever again.

- Warren

Astronuc

Quote by Moonbear

As for Astronuc's comments on joining professional organizations and such, that's quite different from academic clubs in school (you don't need a club to meet upperclassmen, and I've never known any grad students to join undergrad clubs either), and the goal in any of those situations is more to make professional contacts and advance your career, not to engage in socializing and make friends.

Yeah - I wasn't thinking so much of academic clubs, as much as student chapters of techical societies. I'm not sure I ever heard of academic clubs at the universities I attended.

I belonged to student chapters of technical societies. In the one for my major, we socialized as well as developed professional contacts and attended national meetings, and in some cases international conferences.

We'd do barbecues or pizza parties, and several professors would do keg parties. And we'd play soccer, football, baseball as well as dinners and other functions.

Cyrus

Quote by Moonbear

I think Chroot is right here. You give yourself the edge by dressing well, so women haven't dismissed you as a creep before you get to them. That, or they think you're gay based on your attire, so assume you're "safe."

One time there was a group of girls. My friend and I asked them to dance and they said, "No, its girls night out". So I told her, "its okay honey, im gay!". They all started laughing and she said "No your not!" Im like what do you mean im not!? She said, "Your not gay, your artsy. You must be an artist!". So I told her, "fine, Ill just have to paint a nude of you". She laughed, made a naughty face, and then we all danced. Its about being able to talk and say the right things. This is the wit you need in clubs. You cant hesistate with these come backs when a woman tests your wit.

Not to worry though proton, you have many great things on your side. You just have to learn how to use them, and evaluate yourself on how you dress and act around people and refine it. You need to find a style that fits you and work with it. Everyone has a different body type and look. Know which one works for you, and jazz it up.

Moonbear

Quote by Cyrus

Not really. I've been to a very metal punk bar/club, to a very very trendy lounge, to a local college bar. By far the WORST girls are at the college bars. They dont conversate, and are too immature.

Conversate?

Anyway, yeah, college bars are amateur's night out. The worst boys are at those too...half the patrons are underage with fake IDs (or bouncers who look the other way) anyway. Educated people have a variety of tastes, so just because you've been to a range of bars doesn't mean you haven't been to ones that cater to educated crowds, especially when you live in a big city.

Women 25 and older are the best to talk to because they can hold a conversation. You can always find smart girls at a bar, you just have to know how to talk to them or they will tell you to get lost before your done saying your name.

That's just a maturity issue. Men 25 and older can hold a better conversation than younger ones too. And younger people who are more mature-minded will relate to them better too.

Around here, the larger bars are usually the college bars. I go more often to the smaller neighborhood/"dive" bars. Those are the sorts of places where you can quickly get to know the bartenders, owner and everyone in the place. In this town, it's a place where quite a mix of people hang out rather than just the underage students out to get trashed. You'll get grad students, faculty, maintenance staff, and of course, other people from the town not affiliated with the university, all interested in a place to just unwind after work and have a drink or two and converse with the other people there without having to shout over a loud crowd.

Anyway, moot point since I don't think proton is really ready for the bar scene either.

turbo

Volunteer with a local charitable organization. You will find yourself working alongside decent people in a non-threatening environment. You don't have to hit on the females there - just be friendly and work hard. Many women are born match-makers and if they like you but don't have a personal interest in you, they'll hook you up with one of their friends. Male friends will be easier to develop, too, since you won't be in what a lot of guys consider a competitive situation, like a bar or a party scene.

Cyrus

Its not moot though. Eventually he will make friends and he will find himself in a bar with them. So hes going to need to know this.

Also, how old do you look proton? If you look young. Try to look older and talk to older women.

I would recomend eventually going to a bar because if you can talk to a woman in a cut-throat environment, talking to a woman (or anyone for that matter) anywhere else is a breeze.

Astronuc

Quote by Cyrus

Its not moot though. Eventually he will make friends and he will find himself in a bar with them.

Possibly, but not necessarily. When my wife and I dated, we did not go to bars. In fact, I don't ever remember going to a bar with my wife.

In my early years of university, I'd go to the pub with friends to drink and socialize, but I wasn't going to pick up women. I knew plenty of women from class or other social functions, so I never went out to pick up women.

gravenewworld

I can't tell you how many new friends I have made once I start getting into a heated argument that 0.999.....=1.

Cyrus

Quote by Astronuc

Possibly, but not necessarily.

Have faith in proton!

I dont go to pick up women. I just enjoy talking to them. (flirting is the most fun and interesting because you test eachothers wit).

Astronuc

Quote by Cyrus

I dont go to pick up women. I just enjoy talking to them. (flirting is the most fun).

Yeah, I enjoyed talking with the women and sharing their company. I never was into flirting with strange women, or those I knew.

Moonbear

Quote by gravenewworld

I can't tell you how many new friends I have made once I start getting into a heated argument that 0.999.....=1.

I'm glad you made that comment though. All the nice clothes in the world won't help if you open every conversation talking about a subject very few people understand. People are usually most comfortable finding common ground in topics like the weather, traffic, news, entertainment, etc. If you launch right into conversations about physics, or literature, or history, you're going to get a lot of strange looks and blank stares and people wandering away thinking you're a snob. Get your fix of that here, and talk like a normal person in the normal world (if people get to know you and ask more about what you study or what you do for a living, then you can talk more about that). Even those of us with an education like to unwind and spend some time kvetching about the idiot drivers or the lack of any decent candidates running for election.

Yonoz

I don't know if any advice is still needed, but here's my two cents for proton:
Just try and keep an open mind, try to avoid labeling yourself and others - whether that label be "cool hot girl" or "nerd". Feel free to show interest and be different - it sounds like you're at an age when "different" gets a positive connotation.
And time heals everything, so don't be afraid to get a few bumps on your ego. As an old comic sketch goes: "be a man - humiliate yourself!"

Moonbear

Quote by Cyrus

I dont go to pick up women. I just enjoy talking to them. (flirting is the most fun and interesting because you test eachothers wit).

Yes, flirting can be fun and everyone leaves feeling good, even if nothing more ever happens. I'm still waiting for the day when you meet "the one" though, and find yourself tongue-tied and speechless over her.

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Cyrus	Not necessarily true. You can turn a girl on by saying the right things. Im not a stud, and im not buff. But I can talk to to women. (Something most buff guys CANT do). I dress trendy. Boarderline gay. Girls LOVE it. Women compliment me on the way I dress a lot. Its nothing to do about how I look either.

gravenewworld	I can't tell you how many new friends I have made once I start getting into a heated argument that 0.999.....=1.