Algae to the rescue

Ivan Seeking

There is also the idea of rapid pressure changes created by non-linear disturbances. Shock waves can be very effective at rupturing cells.

mheslep

The issue of water separation seems to be a common theme in biofuels production. I read of the similar problems with Cellulosic stocks in particular. I am curious about how nature handles this. That is, what to the termites do? I'm not asking about the enzyme reductions to sugar used by termites, but rather, one might think termites would otherwise have a similar problem with getting to the fuel stock without all the water in the way?

Ivan Seeking

One typically only expects about a 1% algae solution by weight; using the dry weight of the algae. In fact a 1% solution looks like dark-green pea soup.

Ivan Seeking

Here we go:
Michael Briggs ;
email msbriggs@unh.edu
http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html

mheslep

Study critical of the algal biofuel company GreenFuel Technologies:
GreenFuel Technologies: A Case Study for Industrial Photosynthetic Energy Capture
Krassen Dimitrov
http://www.nanostring.net/Algae/CaseStudy.pdf
Conclusion: best possible price with the GT approach is $800/bbl

Ivan Seeking

I think we need to be careful here: Has that paper been published?

But yes, I read that some time ago, and I think the cost of the bioreactor and process is beyond reason. That is not the way to do it. In fact, this sort of approach is part of what motivated me to open my own company.

It is important to remember the scale involved. Designs that have a high cost per square foot, and high maintenance costs, almost certainly cannot have the lifespan needed to justify the price. And no matter how clever might be our bioreactor, there is still the limit of joules per square foot per day, in fuel that can be produced.

mheslep

No, sorry I should have clarified it is not a journal publication. I just found the arguments interesting. However, I note than not even the Aquatic Species Program report is not a 'journal published' document, though it is a sound document and often cited as fundamental.

blimkie.k

I jumped in this thread pretty late, lots of posts to read I didnt read everything so forgive me if I ask something thats allready been discussed but this is an interesting topic and a few questions have come to mind.

First of all does growing mass quanities of algae have any negative effects on the evironment in comparison to bio diesal produced from corn? For example the downside to corn based bio fuel that people most commonly talk about is it destroying the soil by taking all the minerals from it. Does it have a long term effect on water or could the water from algae farms simply be recycled and chemicals added to it so it can be used for growth over long periods of time.

Can one genetically modify algae like similar to produce in hopes to shorten growing time and possibly make it denser so it occupies less acreage and perhaps produces more sugars and hydrocarbons then natural algae?

mheslep

Algae Biodiesel research starting point:
US DoE Aquatic Species Report
www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/fy98/24190.pdf

Land use question: coupling to food is probably nil for BD Algae, though any large scale land usage (assuming land based bioreactors) couples cost in some way for crop land usage.

Interesting aside I heard recently, though I haven't run the numbers: fossil and even nuclear energy use roughly about the same amount of land as solar, wind, or algae-to-BD per unit of energy, once all the mining, drilling, plant, transportation, water usage, and security issues are factored in. Seems plausible, as a quick glance at my closest nuclear plant shows the fence is not right up against the reactor building , rather it keeps me a mile or two away.

Ivan Seeking

I strongly suspect that in time, Algae can be competitive with coal. Now, if you think about that one a bit, and consider the entirety of the coal-to-power process, the elegance of the idea becomes apparent.

baywax

I'm doing a sampling of people that have heard of using algae as a fuel source and I'm surprised to find that about 1 in 4 so far have heard of the process.

This really sounds like one way to pull out of dependency on off shore fuel sources.

(without affecting food prices)

In order to avoid crisis and war can the government demand more cooperation from American Corporations like auto builders and get mechanical conversions going fast or whatever is required for INDEPENDENCE? Is there some reason that America was able to respond so well to crisis in the 1940s with nationally orchestrated manufacturing etc... while in 2008 its a bit like "everyone for themselves"?

DrClapeyron

Could you provide information on the oil? API?

OmCheeto

You should run down and take a look at the Columbia river. It's pea green with algae. Sure would be fun to figure out a way to filter it out. Maybe we could install baleen filters across the dams.

hmmmm..... just plug some wild guesses into a spreadsheet and:
Columbia river algae production
7500 m^3 / sec flow rate
0.001 algae by weight
0.05 low grade wild algae oil content
0.375 m^3 / sec
197231 m^3 / year
264 gal/m^3
52 million gal/yr of algae oil

hmm.... never mind.

looking for the actual numbers to plug into the above table, I ran across a slew of websites stating that algae is actually a headache in a lot of places:
http://healthvermont.gov/enviro/bg_algae/bgalgae.aspx

In China, they're throwing it away!
http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/bl...nas-lakes.html

So if we bump up the numbers to include all the mucky ponds, lakes, and slug rivers, we'll get maybe 5 billion gal/yr or 124 million barrels per year. Which will last... 6 days? Man we suck! Where's that bicycle shop?

Ivan Seeking

What do you want to know, and what did you mean by "watered down"?

What is API. Is that a fuel standard? Biodiesel is an ASTM approved fuel. And biodiesel from algae is considered to be a cleaner fuel option than is biodiesel from soy.

chemisttree

Is algae-derived oil edible? Any idea as to the fatty acid distribution?

I haven't heard that the biodiesel from algae is cleaner than soy biodiesel. How much cleaner is it?

mheslep

Do you mean can be approved? I spoke with a friend at EPA the other day who I told jokingly told I'd like to run my car from biodiesel I made in my back yard. The person replied that it was illegal to burn 'home brew' in the public transportation system, and implied some major certification process was required of each individual process facility. It was not that any intrinsic is wrong with BD, rather its that your required to prove your process does not include some kind of toxins before it goes into the vehicle and the air.

Ivan Seeking

I don't have all of the specifics, but the basic idea is that algae oil is high in unsaturated fats compared to soy oil. For quite a time I was operating under the assumption that we really want saturated fats for the best fuels, but recently it came to my attention that the EPA wants to see unsaturated fats as these produce fewer emissions.

I do have some references for the different fatty acid ratios to be found, and I will try to dig those up later, but oilgae.com has a nice overview. That said, specific information about the oil from each strain of algae is very limited, and there are of course many different strains. What I have seen applies to the most popular strains.

As far as I know, all algae oil is edible. In fact the folks at MIT working on the algae to hydrogen process even claim to make algae drinks at the start of each day. And as you probably know, algae [green algae] is considered to be a health food.