Mentor

## Algae to the rescue

 Quote by Ivan Seeking Actually, that is a real number achieved using highly inefficient open ponds in the ASP.
ASP? That is impressive, do you have a reference?

 Quote by Ivan Seeking No doubt though, ethanol from corn et al is a road to nowhere. At least CE looks promising.
Agreed.
 Recognitions: Gold Member Science Advisor Staff Emeritus I checked the CRC and come up with a measured solar flux yearly average of 0.25 kW per sq meter at the surface, at 45 degrees latitude. If you check using 120,000 BTUs per gallons and a 5% conversion efficiency, this suggests a yield of 12,000 gallons per acre-year. At 60% production and processing efficiency we net 7200 gallons per acre-year. [Actually, that is too high in practice at that latitude. The final yield depends in large part on the selection of algae and its characteristics, the bioreactor design, co-gen systems, the CO2 supplies, the design of the farm, the weather and temperatures, and many other variables.]

Recognitions:
Gold Member
Staff Emeritus
 Quote by DaleSpam ASP? That is impressive, do you have a reference?
The Aquatic Species Program
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/biomass/...from_algae.pdf

Recognitions:
Gold Member
 Quote by Ivan Seeking Solutions range from open ponds to highly technical bioreactor designs. The race is on for the most efficient and cost effective processes, and it is all highly proprietary as it is highly competitive. After all, we are talking about the race to replace Exxon et al. Energy is a trillion dollar a year industry. The introductory bible of the industry is the review of the Aquatic Species Program, linked earlier. This solution has been sitting on the shelf since the 1970s; the price of fuel was just too low for algae to be competitive. But we now have a whole new game at $3 a gallon and higher. Are the people with the most profits (Exxon, Mobile, etc..) in the race?  Recognitions: Gold Member Science Advisor Staff Emeritus Algae is catching on quickly, but until now solar, wind, ethanol etc have been the darlings of the industry. I know that some large energy companies are in play with algae, but I'm not sure who all is getting serious about it as the path to follow. Most of people with whom I've spoken who are working the cutting edge are unfunded or privately funded college professors and entrepreneurs. Part of the problem for the traditional energy companies is that algae does not require huge drilling rigs and tremendously expensive exploration. It can be grown anywhere that we find moderate temps and sources of water. So algae will decentralize the energy markets, which is great for national security. We also eliminate much of the need for an energy infrastructure as it can be produced locally or semi-locally [note that the supply chain efficiency for petro, which is about 80%, wasn't included in our original numbers, so we immediately reduce our demand by 20% if looking at the total energy demand]. All of this threatens to dethrone the energy companies. Ever hear of Sequential Biofuels? They are the number one supplier of biodiesel for much of the Western US. Here in Oregon we just opened the first "alternative fuels only" station.  Recognitions: Gold Member Science Advisor Staff Emeritus For those who missed it, check it out! http://www.nearbio.com/ Also, there is one point that needs to constantly be stressed so I'll mention it again: Converting to BD from algae will inject about 1/2 trillion dollars a year into the US economy that is currently going to foreign suppliers. I need to check to be sure of the exact number, but this has been cited as being about 60% of our trade deficit - about$1400 dollars per year for every US citizen [which just happens to be about the same financial price that we are paying for the Iraq war]. This will solve the problem of GHG emissions because algae is carbon neutral; whether you believe in AGW or not. Contrary to popular claims, "going green" does not mean economic disaster; in fact it will help to save the US economy and create millions of new jobs.

Recognitions:
Homework Help
A saw a recent television program about a company Sofex, that is doing research on increasing algae blooms in the ocean by dumping fine iron dust into existing blooms. The goal was for the algae to take CO2 out of the air, and back into the ocean ("carbon sink"), where it would stay for a very long time (hundreds of years), but eventually would return, so it's not a permanent solution. However I got the impression that Sofex's main source of income would be due to selling greenhouse gas credits to poluting companies, without any actual proof that their activities were truly reducing CO2 significantly more that what ocean life does naturally.

http://www.nmt.edu/mainpage/news/2004/1june01.html

However, after more research, the benefits weren't as good as expected, and there's concern over seeding the ocean with massive quantites of iron.

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/will_...tmosphere_work

 My own question here: What types of algae consume oxygen (the kind where blooms can kill off other forms of life in ponds, lakes, and rivers), and what types of algae produce oxygen?
 Recognitions: Gold Member Science Advisor Staff Emeritus Microalgaes used to produce oils and sugars consume CO2 and water to produce long-chain hydrocarbons and oxygen, so when you burn the fuel you release the carbon that was absorbed from the atmosphere in order to grow the algae - a net zero system. A list of the most promising strains considered in the aquatic species program is found in the review linked above, however there are at least thousands of strains that might be considered. In fact it is very difficult to get specific information about all but the most common strains as it seems that very little is known about most. http://www.oilgae.com/ is a nice place to start after reviewing the ASP. Note that NASA is using algae as a CO2 scrubber in testing for space travel. Generally, wild algae strains are far less productive and will overtake the high producing strains. This is one reason why open ponds are problematic. However, in areas where indigenous strains are reasonably good producers of oil, open ponds may be practical. The bottom line is that typically the good oil producing strains are if anything difficult to keep alive without good controls. They require specific conditions in order to flourish. In fact this is the biggest problem encountered in the DOE program. The winter months were simply too cold for open ponds.

Recognitions:
Gold Member
 Quote by Ivan Seeking Algae is catching on quickly, but until now solar, wind, ethanol etc have been the darlings of the industry. I know that some large energy companies are in play with algae, but I'm not sure who all is getting serious about it as the path to follow. Most of people with whom I've spoken who are working the cutting edge are unfunded or privately funded college professors and entrepreneurs. Part of the problem for the traditional energy companies is that algae does not require huge drilling rigs and tremendously expensive exploration. It can be grown anywhere that we find moderate temps and sources of water. So algae will decentralize the energy markets, which is great for national security. We also eliminate much of the need for an energy infrastructure as it can be produced locally or semi-locally [note that the supply chain efficiency for petro, which is about 80%, wasn't included in our original numbers, so we immediately reduce our demand by 20% if looking at the total energy demand]. All of this threatens to dethrone the energy companies. Ever hear of Sequential Biofuels? They are the number one supplier of biodiesel for much of the Western US. Here in Oregon we just opened the first "alternative fuels only" station.
Very cool! I would think that the major oil producers would have enough foresight to use their profits to ensure a future for their companies. But I also understand that they've invested billions in equipment, overseas invasions... er.... marketing and exploration... and employee benefits. Is there no way that they can convert these assets into Algae research and development and beat the competition? America needs to lead (big time) in these innovations or become a follower and a dependent when it comes to the energy economy.
 Recognitions: Gold Member Science Advisor Staff Emeritus When we first assembled our expert panel of advisors to discuss our technical plan and business plan, my business plan was blown out within the first few minutes - we can sell all of the oil that we can produce at twice the price estimated only six months earlier. I was just informed that Oregon will now require that all diesel sold in the State contain at least 5% biodiesel.

Recognitions:
Gold Member
 Quote by Ivan Seeking When we first assembled our expert panel of advisors to discuss our technical plan and business plan, my business plan was blown out within the first few minutes - we can sell all of the oil that we can produce at twice the price estimated only six months earlier. I was just informed that Oregon will now require that all diesel sold in the State contain at least 5% biodiesel.
That's Oregon for you! Bunch of hippies saving the planet again. Only this time getting rich in the process!
 Recognitions: Gold Member Science Advisor Staff Emeritus Heh, no hippies as far as I know, but this is in part a practical matter: The elimination of sulfur from the diesel, as is now federally mandated, results in damaged injection pumps due to insufficient lubrication. Due to its superior lubricity, adding as little as 2% biodiesel fixes that. In fact this advantage offsets the slightly lower energy density [by volume] of BD as compared to petro-diesel.

Recognitions:
Gold Member
 Quote by Ivan Seeking Heh, no hippies as far as I know, but this is in part a practical matter: The elimination of sulfur from the diesel, as is now federally mandated, results in damaged injection pumps due to insufficient lubrication. Due to its superior lubricity, adding as little as 2% biodiesel fixes that. In fact this advantage offsets the slightly lower energy density [by volume] of BD as compared to petro-diesel.
That's interesting to know that sulfur acts as a lubricant in diesel. I've also heard that ethanol will wear down injectors due to increased heat compared to gas. Is this something you've encountered?
 Recognitions: Gold Member Science Advisor Staff Emeritus I have heard that there are issues with ethanol but I haven't read much about that. Brewnog would probably know.
 Recognitions: Gold Member Science Advisor Staff Emeritus Regarding the role of energy companies, I would expect that companies like Sequential Biofuels will eventually be acquired by companies like BP - let the little guys do the dirty work and then move in and take over. But, frankly, as long as we solve the problem, who cares? Also, the correct language for the new standard is ULSD - ultra-low sulfur diesel - which allows no more than 15 ppm of sulfur.

Recognitions:
Gold Member
 Quote by Ivan Seeking Regarding the role of energy companies, I would expect that companies like Sequential Biofuels will eventually be acquired by companies like BP - let the little guys do the dirty work and then move in and take over. But, frankly, as long as we solve the problem, who cares? Also, the correct language for the new standard is ULSD - ultra-low sulfur diesel - which allows no more than 15 ppm of sulfur.
Yeah, who cares. The technology will be world wide if the de-centralization factor weighs in with regard to algae as a source for energy. Then everyone can stay at home with their algae fields, forever. I wonder what the next issue to go to war about will be.

Recognitions:
Gold Member
 Quote by baywax Yeah, who cares. The technology will be world wide if the de-centralization factor weighs in with regard to algae as a source for energy. Then everyone can stay at home with their algae fields, forever. I wonder what the next issue to go to war about will be.
War? Let's go to war with those stinkin Mexicans. The New Mexicans to be specific. Time magazine had an article today, sponsored by CNN, payed for by WM(waste management) that said there is a company(Vertigro Energy(probably a stinkin American company)) that claims that they can produce 100,000 gallons of oil from algae, per acre, per year.

vs. um... 20 gallons per acre for corn fed bio-fuels.

The article stated that 1/10th of the state of New Mexico could produce all our energy needs. Today. And all we need is a bunch of cellophane.

hmmm........