Progress in Afghanistan

Pyrrhus

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200806/world-in-numbers

Hope Through Better Highways?

Heavy fighting continues in isolated valleys, particularly in the Korengal Valley, where road building is under way. But a road through the Pech Valley, now complete, has provided the kind of economic and security boost that U.S. officers say they anticipated. Senator Joseph Biden, who visited Kunar province in February, told the Associated Press, “How do you spell hope in Dari and Pashtu? A-S-P-H-A-L-T.”

Bombs Away

U.S. commanders in Kunar province say that the number of roadside bomb attacks has been cut by more than half over the past year, in part because of road improvements—mines are more difficult to conceal on asphalt roads than on dirt ones. Overall, confirmed deaths of NATO and coalition forces in Kunar have dropped, from about 30 in 2006 to 10 or so in 2007, and to just one during the first three months of this year.

This is an article back in June, 2008. I thought it offered a point of view not many of us have heard.

Astronuc

A good program that was going on was the Alternative Livelihoods Program / Eradicating Drugs by USAid/Dept of State.

http://www.state.gov/p/sca/rls/fs/2005/52396.htm

The program principally targets core poppy-producing areas in southern (Helmand and Kandahar Provinces), eastern (Nangarhar and Laghman Provinces) and northern (Badakhshan Province) Afghanistan, but will include activities in other provinces where poppy cultivation is expanding or where there has been a concerted effort to eliminate narcotics production.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmand_Province
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badakhshan_Province

Art

The best summary of the current status in Afghanistan was in a BBC report I read the other day where the reporter said the total extent of the Afghan gov'ts influence is the distance of one rifle shot from the fortified walls of Kabul.

Astronuc

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refere...nan/index.html

David D. McKiernan, the American four-star general who led the allied ground forces during the invasion of Iraq in 2003, became the NATO commander in Afghanistan as of June 2008. As head of the International Security Assistance Force, he is the military leader in charge of the allied war effort in Afghanistan against increasingly deadly and aggressive attacks by Taliban and Al Qaeda militants, many of whom are based in western Pakistan.

General McKiernan was never a favorite of former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. In the months before the Iraq war, he pressed to begin the war with a greater number of troops than authorized in the plan he had inherited. After the invasion he was made the deputy head of the Army's Forces Command, which oversees the training of American troops in the United States. In 2005, he was awarded a fourth star and made the head of American Army troops in Europe.

General Says He’s Hopeful About Taliban War
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/wo.../13afghan.html

Perhaps. I think the US can win all the battles, but unless there is a stable and non-corrupt government to lead the country, it would seem the victory(ies) would be in vain. My greatest concern and objection is the killing of non-combatants - women and children. I don't expect the Taliban to be concerned about that, but I do think that US and NATO forces should go the extra step not to kill civilians - that means no firing into villages or compounds unless one is sure that no women and children are present.

Evo

Quote by Astronuc

Perhaps. I think the US can win all the battles, but unless there is a stable and non-corrupt government to lead the country, it would seem the victory(ies) would be in vain. My greatest concern and objection is the killing of non-combatants - women and children. I don't expect the Taliban to be concerned about that, but I do think that US and NATO forces should go the extra step not to kill civilians - that means no firing into villages or compounds unless one is sure that no women and children are present.

But that's impossible. These people deliberately hide among civilians for protection.

rootX

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7656745.stm

For Kuchi nomads like Rahmat Goal's family, survival is a daily struggle.

rootX

Quote by Evo

But that's impossible. These people deliberately hide among civilians for protection.

I think civilians hide them. If you go on killing civilians, what you expect from those normal people?

I think US cannot eliminate the Afghanistan people who don't like US.

Astronuc

Quote by Evo

But that's impossible. These people deliberately hide among civilians for protection.

It's difficult but not impossible. The Taliban and sympathizers simply live in their homes and neighborhoods/villages when they are not out fighting the Afghan government and US/NATO forces. It's their country. The US/NATO are propping up a government in what is eseentially a civil war that spans two countries.

If one calls in an AC-130, one is going to kill civilians. The US and NATO forces need to be smarter.

Meanwhile Pakistan and Afghanistan go hand in hand because the Pahstuns (e.g. Waziri) straddle the border.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun

Intelligence report: U.S. antiterror ally Pakistan 'on the edge'
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20...latchy/3072503

WASHINGTON — A growing al Qaida -backed insurgency, combined with the Pakistani army's reluctance to launch an all-out crackdown, political infighting and energy and food shortages are plunging America's key ally in the war on terror deeper into turmoil and violence, says a soon-to-be completed U.S. intelligence assessment.

A U.S. official who participated in drafting the top secret National Intelligence Estimate said it portrays the situation in Pakistan as "very bad." Another official called the draft "very bleak," and said it describes Pakistan as being "on the edge."

The first official summarized the estimate's conclusions about the state of Pakistan as: "no money, no energy, no government."

Six U.S. officials who helped draft or are aware of the document's findings confirmed them to McClatchy on the condition of anonymity because NIEs are top secret and are restricted to the president, senior officials and members of Congress . An NIE's conclusions reflect the consensus of all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies.

The NIE on Pakistan , along with others being prepared on Afghanistan and Iraq , will underpin a "strategic assessment" of the situation that Army Gen. David Petraeus , who's about to take command of all U.S. forces in the region, has requested. The aim of the assessment — seven years after the U.S. sent troops into Afghanistan — is to determine whether a U.S. presence in the region can be effective and if so what U.S. strategy should be.
. . . .

Astronuc

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081017/...as_afghanistan
Official: Afghans probing 17 civilian deaths

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan – Afghan authorities are investigating the deaths of at least 17 civilians during a clash between NATO forces and militants in southern Afghanistan, an official said Friday.

Villagers and a senior police official claimed Thursday that a NATO airstrike killed the civilians, including women and children, in Nad Ali district of the Helmand province.

The NATO-led force in Afghanistan confirmed that it carried out an airstrike in the area on Thursday — but not that it resulted in any civilian casualties.

NATO spokesman Capt. Mark Windsor said Friday the force was seeking more information and declined further comment.

Daud Ahmadi, spokesman for Helmand's governor, said Friday that authorities were investigating whether the airstrike or "insurgent action" caused the collapse of the house in which the civilians died.

Angry villagers brought more than a dozen corpses — including the badly mangled bodies of women and children — to the governor's house in the town of Lashkar Gah on Thursday, said Haji Adnan Khan, a tribal leader who had seen the bodies.

Nad Ali, about 6 miles from Lashkar Gah, has been a scene of heavy fighting between insurgents and Afghan and foreign troops. Militants control much of the area around the village.

Maybe some militants are angry with the US/EU (or some hate America and Europe) because invaders (US and EU/NATO military) kill their women and children, or parents, or siblings or other family members, or friends. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan have not invaded or threatened the US, although Saddam Hussein threated the US/Israel with retaliation if attacked.

The hijackers who attacked the WTC and Pentagon on Sept 11, were from Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates (now headquarters for Halliburton), Egypt and Lebanon.

Osama bin Laden (al Qaida) is from Saudi Arabia and Ayman al-Zawahiri is Egyptian. One connection with Pakistan would be Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who was born in Kuwait to parents from Baluchistan (Pakistan).

Art

At this point I have absolutely no clue what the mission is in Afghanistan.

What are the US and other NATO forces trying to achieve?

If their role is to provide security and stability then they are failing miserably and indeed are the main causes of the lack of security and instability.

By supporting what were the murdering war lords of the former Northern Alliance they have helped drug dealing, corrupt criminals to take power and are expending huge resources in men and material to keep them there at a cost of alienating an entire generation of people.

Why???

BobG

Quote by Astronuc

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081017/...as_afghanistan
Official: Afghans probing 17 civilian deaths
Maybe some militants are angry with the US/EU (or some hate America and Europe) because invaders (US and EU/NATO military) kill their women and children, or parents, or siblings or other family members, or friends. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan have not invaded or threatened the US, although Saddam Hussein threated the US/Israel with retaliation if attacked.

The hijackers who attacked the WTC and Pentagon on Sept 11, were from Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates (now headquarters for Halliburton), Egypt and Lebanon.

Osama bin Laden (al Qaida) is from Saudi Arabia and Ayman al-Zawahiri is Egyptian. One connection with Pakistan would be Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who was born in Kuwait to parents from Baluchistan (Pakistan).

So you're saying the Taliban government in Afghanistan was right to deny the US permission to attack al-Qaida in their country since all of the al-Qaida in their country were foreigners?!

That's going back to the old cop out where terrorists can attack as they please because as long as the government of whatever country they reside in didn't actually make the attack, therefore the US can't respond.

Quote by Art

At this point I have absolutely no clue what the mission is in Afghanistan.

What are the US and other NATO forces trying to achieve?

If their role is to provide security and stability then they are failing miserably and indeed are the main causes of the lack of security and instability.

By supporting what were the murdering war lords of the former Northern Alliance they have helped drug dealing, corrupt criminals to take power and are expending huge resources in men and material to keep them there at a cost of alienating an entire generation of people.

Why???

Goes back to that politically correct idea that the US can't go into a country, accomplish what they needed to do, then leave the country in the same shambles it was in before they invaded. We need to somehow make the country a better place than it was before we attacked.

That's just not always realistic and Afghanistan is one of those instances.

I don't think that necessarily means we shoud leave. The US still hasn't accomplished what it set out to do. Doing that raises the possibility of an even bigger mess.

US and Pakistani forces have had minor skirmishes with each other over the last month. I think the skirmishes will continue for a while and could get worse.

That raises an interesting possibility. We could have combat, complete with casualties, with another nuclear armed country. That would be a new world first.

We could also have combat where both the US and the enemy forces were being funded by the US taxpayer. Then again, most of the US aid goes to beefing up Pakistan's forces along their border with India rather than to their forces along the Afghanistan border, so maybe we're not funding enemy forces so much.

I'm not sure how the US should have handled Pakistan immediately after the Afghanistan invasion, but the way we did handle them hasn't worked.

Astronuc

Quote by BobG

So you're saying the Taliban government in Afghanistan was right to deny the US permission to attack al-Qaida in their country since all of the al-Qaida in their country were foreigners?!

I didn't say that. It's quite complicated and there is not simple answer.

Al Qaida and their Taliban sympathizers who are planning attacks against US, Pakistan and Afghan governments and innocent people are legitimate targets (at least according to internationals standards).

If one reads the reports from Robert Fisk (The Independent, UK), he mentions the situation with the people in the border region whose villages were bombed or shelled by US forces. Most are not Taliban, but some members in the villages may be Taliban. Non-combatants, including women and children, are killed. I have a big problem with that!

The first interaction some of these people have with the outside world is American/NATO military attacking their villages.

Paraphrasing an old proverb - One evil deed (or misdeed) undermines 1000 good deeds.

I think there is a better way, and I'm working on it.

Astronuc

Pakistan and Afghanistan go hand in hand. Both countries share tribes and a common history.

Pakistan is in deep trouble economically.

Pakistan reported nearing default, to seek IMF help

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- After failing to get help from China, Pakistan may need to turn to the International Monetary Fund -- a politically unpopular move -- for cash to bolster its economy and avoid defaulting on its debt obligations, according to news reports Sunday.

The country, perceived as one of the world's riskiest borrowers, may need as much as $6 billion to boost its foreign-currency reserves, which fell more than 74% in the past year to about $4.3 billion, according to a Bloomberg News report.

The next interest payment for Pakistan on its dollar-denominated bonds is due in December, and the government is scheduled to repay $500 million in February on a 6.75% note, the report said.

Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari returned from China late Friday failing to secure a cash commitment from its neighbor, the New York Times reported.

China had been seen as a last resort before Pakistan turns to the IMF, the Times report said. Saudi Arabia, another of the country's traditional ally, refused earlier to offer concessions on oil, it said.

Pakistan and IMF must step carefully.

Astronuc

Afghan journalism student sentenced to 20 years
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/...urnalist_trial

KABUL, Afghanistan – An Afghan appeals court overturned a death sentence Tuesday for a journalism student accused of blasphemy for asking questions in class about women's rights under Islam. But the judges still sentenced him to 20 years in prison.

The case against 24-year-old Parwez Kambakhsh, whose brother has angered Afghan warlords with his own writings, has come to symbolize Afghanistan's slide toward an ultraconservative view on religious and individual freedoms.

"I don't accept the court's decision," Kambakhsh told The Associated Press as he was leaving the courtroom. "It is an unfair decision."

The case can be appealed to the Supreme Court, the highest court in Afghanistan.

John Dempsey, a U.S. lawyer working for six years to reform the Afghan justice system, said Kambakhsh has yet to get a fair trial.
. . . .

Besides the accusation that Kambakhsh disrupted class with his questions, prosecutors also said he illegally distributed an article he printed off the Internet that asks why Islam does not modernize to give women equal rights. He also allegedly wrote his own comments on the paper.

In January, a lower court sentenced him to death in a trial critics have called flawed in part because Kambakhsh had no lawyer representing him. Muslim clerics welcomed that court's decision and public demonstrations were held against the journalism student because of perceptions he had violated the tenets of Islam.
. . . .

Disrupting class should not result in the death penalty. Distributing literature that asks "why Islam does not modernize to give women equal rights" should not result in a death penalty. This is not a democratic system, but rather it is an oligarchy.

The apparent goal in Afghanistan is to preclude a haven for al Qaida. Aside from that, the Bush administration seems less concerned about democracy.

Art

Yet more civilians killed by 'accident'

Air raid 'kills Afghan civilians'

At least five Afghan civilians have been killed in an air strike by international forces in the north-west, local officials say.

They say at least 13 insurgents also died in the raid, after they attacked Afghan and international troops in Ghormach district in Badghis province.

United States-led forces have said they are checking the reports.

On Wednesday President Hamid Karzai condemned a US air strike which killed 40 people at a wedding in the south.

The raid was aimed at the Taleban in the province of Kandahar.

Mr Karzai called on Barack Obama to prevent civilian casualties when he take over as US president.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7713065.stm

Given the lack of impact of numerous previous condemnations of attacks leading to civilian deaths it seems until a military commander is actually held responsible for one of these atrocities it is likely they will continue unabated.

Even if the military top brass care nothing for civilian casualties they must realise these reckless attacks are the perfect recruiting sergeant for anti-western forces.

OAQfirst

Attackers in Afghanistan have sprayed acid in the faces of at least 15 girls near a school in Kandahar, police say.

...

Correspondents say the attack is likely to have been carried out by those opposed to the education of women.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7724505.stm

These attacks on women/girls, which happen in similar fashion elsewhere as well, I never understand. It only proves how weak those guys are where they become concerned about females actually accomplishing something with their lives. Geez, talk about insecurities!

Art

A good article from the Independent drawing parallels between the situation in Afghanistan today and the past.

snip

Kabul 30 years ago, and Kabul today. Have we learned nothing?

At night, the thump of American Sikorsky helicopters and the whisper of high-altitude F-18s invade my room. The United States of America is settling George Bush's scores with the "terrorists" trying to overthrow Hamid Karzai's corrupt government.

Now rewind almost 29 years, and I am on the balcony of the Intercontinental Hotel on the other side of this great, cold, fuggy city. Impeccable staff, frozen Polish beer in the bar, secret policemen in the front lobby, Russian troops parked in the forecourt. The Bala Hissar fort glimmers through the smoke. The kites – green seems a favourite colour – move beyond the trees. At night, the thump of Hind choppers and the whisper of high-altitude MiGs invade my room. The Soviet Union is settling Leonid Brezhnev's scores with the "terrorists" trying to overthrow Barbrak Karmal's corrupt government.

Thirty miles north, all those years ago, a Soviet general told us of the imminent victory over the "terrorists" in the mountains, imperialist "remnants" – the phrase Kabul communist radio always used – who were being supported by America and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

Fast forward to 2001 – just seven years ago – and an American general told us of the imminent victory over the "terrorists" in the mountains, the all but conquered Taliban who were being supported by Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. The Russian was pontificating at the big Soviet airbase at Bagram. The American general was pontificating at the big US airbase at Bagram.

This is not déjà-vu. This is déjà double-vu. And it gets worse.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...g-1029920.html

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