Update FAQ? Re: black hole originated from anti-matter colliding with black hole

Jim Graber

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no,location=no, scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>\n\n\n\nbaez@galaxy.ucr.edu (John Baez) wrote in message news:<c6cf1r\\$lup\\$1@glue.ucr.edu>...\n\n> Opinions vary widely here; this is a key open problem in\n> quantum gravity, without much to guide us. It\'s called the\n> "black hole information loss problem":\n>\n> http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/BlackHoles/info_loss.html\n>\n> Sometimes really frustrated physicists call it the black hole\n> information loss "paradox", but it\'s not really a logical paradox.\n>\n> Here\'s a copy of the bet that Preskill made with Hawking and Thorne\n> about this puzzle in 1997:\n>\n> http://www.theory.caltech.edu/people/preskill/info_bet.html\n\nThe FAQ above still says "Warren Anderson 1996". Isn\'t it time\nsomeone updated the FAQ? Certainly something worth mentioning has\nhappened in the last 8 years.\n\nFor instance, Mathur and co-workers claim to have solved this issue\nand say Hawking and Thorne should pay off Preskill.\n\nMaybe we need a multisided FAQ expressing the various opinions.\nAnyhow, I\'m ready to read something new that\'s a little less technical\nthan some of the original papers on gr-qc or quant-ph.\n\nFinal silly threat: If no one smarter than me does it, maybe I\'ll\nhave to try updating the FAQ myself. Of course, I move fairly\nslowly, so don\'t hold your breath.\n\nHow bout it, Wizards and Sorcerers, what\'s the latest word?\n\nTIA Jim Graber\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>baez@galaxy.ucr.edu (John Baez) wrote in message news:<c6cf1r$lup$1@glue.ucr.edu>...

> Opinions vary widely here; this is a key open problem in
> quantum gravity, without much to guide us. It's called the
> "black hole information loss problem":
>
> http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physic...info_loss.html
>
> Sometimes really frustrated physicists call it the black hole
> information loss "paradox", but it's not really a logical paradox.
>
> Here's a copy of the bet that Preskill made with Hawking and Thorne
> about this puzzle in 1997:
>
> http://www.theory.caltech.edu/people.../info_bet.html

The FAQ above still says "Warren Anderson 1996". Isn't it time
someone updated the FAQ? Certainly something worth mentioning has
happened in the last 8 years.

For instance, Mathur and co-workers claim to have solved this issue
and say Hawking and Thorne should pay off Preskill.

Maybe we need a multisided FAQ expressing the various opinions.
Anyhow, I'm ready to read something new that's a little less technical
than some of the original papers on gr-qc or quant-ph.

Final silly threat: If no one smarter than me does it, maybe I'll
have to try updating the FAQ myself. Of course, I move fairly
slowly, so don't hold your breath.

How bout it, Wizards and Sorcerers, what's the latest word?

TIA Jim Graber

John Baez

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no,location=no, scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>In article <ba566c17.0403232301.44fecb2d@posting.google.com>,\nDaniel <ensabah6@yahoo.com> wrote:\n\n>normally when matter and anti-matter meet, they result in pure\n>photonic energy.\n\nNot necessarily! All sorts of particles can be created when\nmatter and antimatter annihilate. For example, the particle\naccelerator LEP collides electrons and positrons and creates\na huge variety of particles, which we then sift to find information\nabout the W boson, the Z boson, and other interesting things.\n\n>normally when 2 black holes meet, they get larger due to the combined\n>masses.\n>\n>what if a black hole that originated from a collapse star that was\n>made of anti-matter (anti-hydrogen) collides with a black hole that\n>originated from ordinary matter. would you get an explosion or would\n>they get larger?\n\nWe don\'t know, since we haven\'t done it, but everyone predicts\nyou\'d just get a bigger black hole. As the moderator pointed out,\nit\'s believed that "black holes have no hair". This means that\nonce they settle down it doesn\'t matter what they were made from,\nas long as they have a given charge, energy, momentum, and angular\nmomentum. But this leads to a puzzle called the "information loss\nparadox", whose resolution is still widely debated.\n\n\n\n\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>In article <ba566c17.0403232301.44fecb2d@posting.google.com>,
Daniel <ensabah6@yahoo.com> wrote:

>normally when matter and anti-matter meet, they result in pure
>photonic energy.

Not necessarily! All sorts of particles can be created when
matter and antimatter annihilate. For example, the particle
accelerator LEP collides electrons and positrons and creates
a huge variety of particles, which we then sift to find information
about the W boson, the Z boson, and other interesting things.

>normally when 2 black holes meet, they get larger due to the combined
>masses.
>
>what if a black hole that originated from a collapse star that was
>made of anti-matter (anti-hydrogen) collides with a black hole that
>originated from ordinary matter. would you get an explosion or would
>they get larger?

We don't know, since we haven't done it, but everyone predicts
you'd just get a bigger black hole. As the moderator pointed out,
it's believed that "black holes have no hair". This means that
once they settle down it doesn't matter what they were made from,
as long as they have a given charge, energy, momentum, and angular
momentum. But this leads to a puzzle called the "information loss
paradox", whose resolution is still widely debated.

John Baez

<jabberwocky><div class="vbmenu_control"><a href="jabberwocky:;" onClick="newWindow=window.open('','usenetCode','toolbar=no,location=no, scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,status=no,width=650,height=400'); newWindow.document.write('<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Usenet ASCII</TITLE></HEAD><BODY topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 BGCOLOR=#F1F1F1><table border=0 width=625><td bgcolor=midnightblue><font color=#F1F1F1>This Usenet message\'s original ASCII form: </font></td></tr><tr><td width=449><br><br><font face=courier><UL><PRE>In article <ba566c17.0403282345.12b66e15@posting.google.com>,\nDaniel <ensabah6@yahoo.com> wrote:\n\n>i am aware of that theorem. i wonder though whether the matter in a\n>black hole is crushed out of existence, or whether it forms a new\n>state of matter.\n>I know that GR predicts a singularity of infinite density, but i\n>wonder if QM prevents this from happening, and that there is a new\n>state of matter at the center of a black hole.\n\nYou\'re not the only one who wonders about this. We *all* do.\n\nFigure out the answer, prove it\'s right, and win a Nobel prize.\nBut, don\'t give up your day job.\n\n\n\n\n\n</UL></PRE></font></td></tr></table></BODY><HTML>');"> <IMG SRC=/images/buttons/ip.gif BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER ALT="View this Usenet post in original ASCII form">  View this Usenet post in original ASCII form </a></div><P></jabberwocky>In article <ba566c17.0403282345.12b66e15@posting.google.com>,
Daniel <ensabah6@yahoo.com> wrote:

>i am aware of that theorem. i wonder though whether the matter in a
>black hole is crushed out of existence, or whether it forms a new
>state of matter.
>I know that GR predicts a singularity of infinite density, but i
>wonder if QM prevents this from happening, and that there is a new
>state of matter at the center of a black hole.

You're not the only one who wonders about this. [itex]We *all*[/itex] do.

Figure out the answer, prove it's right, and win a Nobel prize.
But, don't give up your day job.

Katrex

Personaly I think all a singularity is is a single neutron that takes up no spacethen around it you have more neutrons all compresed spacialy but not totaly and it gradualy woks its way up to normal size. Personaly nothing special just compresed space. I dont think things disapear in to black holes because eventualy everything that goes in gets emited as radiation, so for something to truely disapear violates the second law of thermodynamics

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