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## Can Dreams Predict Future?

I'm not challenging that idea. All I'm saying is that our failure to reproduce 'prophetic' dreams (or most psi phenomena in general) does not amount to evidence against such phenomena, just a lack of a certain kind of evidence for them.

 Recognitions: Gold Member Staff Emeritus That wasn't my argument against prognosticatory dreams anyway. My argument against it was that the future does not exist and we cannot possibly have knowledge of that which does not exist. At the very least, granting the possibility would require a huge overhaul of our understanding of the nature of time. I don't know how much you know about Bayesian probability analysis, but given our background knowledge and the available evidence, one hypothesis is almost infinitely more probable than the other. The equation is always open to new evidence, but until such evidence comes, it would be utter foolhardiness to conclude that clairvoyant prognostication is taking place, or even that the prospects are anywhere near equal for each hypothesis.
 Recognitions: Gold Member Science Advisor Staff Emeritus The future does not exist according to whom? It appears as if it doesn't exist yet-- this is a view of time made from within time. Are we really in some priveleged position to judge what does and does not exist, or is our view relative to our particular viewpoint? In any case, time isn't an absolute. Two events that appear to occur simultaneously to one observor can appear to occur sequentially to another. So for one observor, 'the future' is happening right now, and for the other it is yet to happen. If the latter says that it doesn't exist, he'll get a funny look from the former. More generally, if we refuse to grant priveleged status to any particular reference frame, then there is no absolute sense in which the future doesn't exist.
 I do not believe I can see the future I know I can, I have done it many times. Those who did not believe it is possible now believe it is. One women I told of a disaster before it happened and the exact day said she did not what to know anymore and not to tell her. The fact that anyone says something does not exist is a complete admission of their lack of logic and dishonesty. I witnessed my next door neighbor(the father of my friend) walk again after years of being confined to a wheel chair unable to walk with MS. The doctors also said it was utterly unexplainable after many years confined to a wheel chair. I would not accept that he was healed even though I knew his character and it was good. I had to understand how it was possible. Could I deny it NO. Chould I affirm it NO. I was left in nomans land. This is being true to myself. This is logic. Drop you arrogant foolishness before life pounds you into the dust. It will you know. Change your minds, change your ways. You would have accepted it when you saw not only the physical evidence, but one piece of evidence which was purely physical.
 I just think its one of those things that most people will think is bull**** unless they have a direct personal experience of it. I dont really blame anyone for not 'believing', but at the same time i think its going a step too far to say that seeing into the future is impossible as it hasnt happened yet. That seems a little simple minded to me; as hypnagogue pointed out time is relative.
 You find the college with balls enough to care about reality, and I will prove it is possible. Stage one will be to examine the past of what happened already. I can prove that with some degree of certainty with a series of tests. Stage two, I tell what the universe is created out of and how it works which is how this is possible. With this comes a few extras. Stage three? It would be kind of like giving fire to kids wouldn't it. It's ok I suppose there is a safety gaurd for misuse. Problem is you will get masses of people attempting to take advantage of others, dozens of times more so than now. And many will be taken advantage of because they do not see the difference. I will undergo something which no other would be willing to go through who has claimed to see the future. Some of you belong to colleges, many maybe. Find me the college. This is no joke. The second the world "believes", things will change somewhat. Sometimes belief creates a break through into that extra nudge which creates or unviels experience. If you know the words of a truthful person, you will know mine.

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 Quote by hypnagogue The future does not exist according to whom? It appears as if it doesn't exist yet-- this is a view of time made from within time. Are we really in some priveleged position to judge what does and does not exist, or is our view relative to our particular viewpoint? In any case, time isn't an absolute. Two events that appear to occur simultaneously to one observor can appear to occur sequentially to another. So for one observor, 'the future' is happening right now, and for the other it is yet to happen. If the latter says that it doesn't exist, he'll get a funny look from the former. More generally, if we refuse to grant priveleged status to any particular reference frame, then there is no absolute sense in which the future doesn't exist.
Our future doesn't yet exist within our own reference frame. Good enough?

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 Quote by loseyourname Our future doesn't yet exist within our own reference frame. Good enough?
It doesn't yet exist, but it exists in a greater context. That opens the logical possibility of premonition.

 ok all, i have something for you here. I have indeed seen the future through REPEATED dreams. Then seen the manifestation of it in my 'present'. This past summer, I had a re-occurring dream: I catch thieves breaking into my van. While trying to stop them, I manage to save a bag of $1200 that was inside the van. They get away with everything else except the$1200. About 2 weeks later, my van gets broken in to. Hours before the break-in, I ?coincidentally? remove the bag of $1200 from the van for UNRELATED REASONS that I had up until that point, stored in the van (I was on a long road trip). At first, what seemed to have happened was I dreamed of what would happen in the future, and received some kind of warning through the dream about my money. This raises a lot of interesting questions. What is free will? Is our path in life predetermined? Many people cling to the friendly idea that they have complete control over their future, and that their destiny is whatever they make it. For a while, I thought this to be so. But there are some complicated problems with this notion and the dreams I had about the break-in. If all future events are manifested as an effect of our own free willed choices, in other words, if we are really in control of our future, then why would I have dreamt of a future event at all? If free will is so, then the event of the break-in would have been only one of billions upon billions of possible outcomes of future events, which would in this case be controlled by my choices. In theory, something as simple as wearing a different color shirt weeks beforehand could have made a huge dent in the probability of the break-in. So the event of the break-in according to free will couldn’t have possibly been inevitable until the moment it starting happening. Therefore there would have been no reason for me to dream of it weeks before hand. This reasoning about the notion of free will brings me to consider the possibility of a predetermined path to our existence. Where free will is nothing more than a comfortable illusion brought on by a defiance to reality. A reality in which all instances regarded as moments in time (all past instances, present and future instances) exist simultaneously within a space of eternity. Similar to a photo exposed multiple times of the sun passing where several moments in "time" are represented in one frame by the different positions of the sun in that frame. In this example, the frame represents a space of eternity, while the different positions of the sun represent different instances all of which exist simultaneously in the eternity frame. Look at one position of the sun in the frame. By observing the future positions of the suns instances within the frame you can predict its past positions, and vise versa, you can observe the suns past positions within the frame and determine its future positions. In this case, the future can be predicted by the past, as can the past be predicted by the future. The nature of cause and effect runs in ALL directions. No matter which direction time is perceived, the outcomes are reasonably predictable. So, considering this, does time, or whatever we consider to be time, even have a real direction? Or does it simply exist, with neither a begginning, an end, or a direction? Memories can be described as a recording of causes to which the effect is the coinciding existance frame. After all, I wouldn’t be writing this sentence if I hadn’t written the sentences before it, and I can remember doing so. Regarding the dream in reference to what I wrote above, I can suppose that the dream was a temporary slip up in the singular awareness of the order of instances that simultaneously exist in an eternity frame. That my dream was a memory of an event that is still happening AND HAS ALWAYS HAPPENED in what is relatively now a past frame of existence in an eternity frame. This wasn’t a warning of any kind, but was a "memory" of an event yet to occur. In a sense, I traveled through time in my dream and caught a glimpse of what was to be an effect of a cause, and, the cause of an effect. Since time has no direction and all instances 'are' in an eternity frame, my dream was simply a relief from the illusion of times direction. A memory of the future. Now, you may say that this is all nonsense and if what I said is true, then why didn’t I dream of exactly what happened, if (according to me) what I saw in the dream was exactly what would happen in the future? This is because within the eternity, an infinite (eternity) amount of instances exist. and while I was dreaming, I was seeing the same type of event happen in different ways, in different life paths, or, dimensions, different instances. The imagination (subconscious) view this realm of eternity. An idea of the imagination is the subconscious observing different outcomes of instances. Like playing a game of pool, when you can ‘see’ the path at which you need to hit the ball, you are seeing existing moments in different instances in eternity. Statistics and probability are only proven relative to a particular sequence of instances. The more instances within a sequence are observed, the less probabilities there will be. The longer a consciousness follows a path, the harder it is to get off that path., the longer one lives, the less choices he has. infinity <---- 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 ? 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 ----> infinity -In infinity, the probability of the missing number to be 9 is the same for it to be any other number, or simply to not ‘be’ at all. In infinity all outcomes are equally possible. In a single life path, “statistics and probability are only proven relative to a particular sequence of instances”. In infinity, statistics is a measure of inversely proportional probabilities where all opposing outcomes are equally possible. When I was 10 or so, I dreamt that my mother had died. In the dream, she was being taken away from my house in a casket that was made of glass. I ran up to her and looked down upon her before she was carried from the house. Looking up at me, she said, "don't worry, everythings going to be alright". When I was 21, she died in my house while I was flying back by plane from a short vactaion. The dream was simply a preperation for what was to come in the future, so as not to be so much of a shock. Now, if i had this dream after the fact, then i could rationalize it away as just my own mind trying to deal, but the fact that i saw i happen BEFORE it 'did happen', forces me to realize the significance of the dream.  well i have had so many dreams about different places in moments of time, then a few days later i experience the same setting and moment in real life. and i know exactly what is happening next. it must happen to many people. i think. Mentor  Quote by hypnagogue I'm not challenging that idea. All I'm saying is that our failure to reproduce 'prophetic' dreams (or most psi phenomena in general) does not amount to evidence against such phenomena, just a lack of a certain kind of evidence for them. That works for me.  Like i siad earlier i find it interesting that people i speak to and have heard from mostly only seem to have premonitions when their life may be in danger. Its like an in built early warning system thats evolved over time.  Quote by Overdose Like i siad earlier i find it interesting that people i speak to and have heard from mostly only seem to have premonitions when their life may be in danger. Its like an in built early warning system thats evolved over time. yes, perhaps more generally when something relatively important will happen. hmmm, ?will?, or ?could?, or ?probably will?. seems like a question on free will verses predetermined future Mentor  Quote by mikesvenson This past summer, I had a re-occurring dream: I catch thieves breaking into my van. While trying to stop them, I manage to save a bag of$1200 that was inside the van.
If I had $1200 in a van, I'd be real surprised if I didn't dream about it being stolen.  Quote by russ_watters If I had$1200 in a van, I'd be real surprised if I didn't dream about it being stolen.

good point, although i see the coincidences in this incident to profound to be dismissed by such an optimistically obviouse explanation. As you read, i dreamt about saving the money at the last minute as the van was being broken into. (in 2 seperate dreams). Ironically, the van was broken into, and the money was saved. Perhaps the dream was a reminder for my subconsiouse(which was seeing the future instances that were to arrive) to find a reason to take the money out of the van the day of the break-in. The money then was taken out of the van for completely unrelated reasons. I didnt see the break-in coming at the least bit, since i dismissed the dreams as nothing, untill that is, the dream actually came true.

 i have not read this thread, so i apologize if this has been offered previously. if, time only exists in our physical world and our dreams are timeless (without time). why wouldn't we be able to visit both the future and past?? i suspect that we 'educated' people have lost this aspect of our consciousness. so many 'ignorant' cultures still believe and work with their dreams rather well. love&peace, olde drunk
 Recognitions: Gold Member Staff Emeritus Whatcha talkin' about, drunk? Do you mean that since you can have a dream in which days pass in the dream, when in reality, it's only been a couple of hours, that when you dream, your consciousness is escaping time. Ignoring the fact that nothing in either science or experience can really tell us whether or not that is possible or what the consequences would be, I don't see how you would then be able to re-enter time at a later date, then come back out and re-enter at the original earlier date. That implies that all of time already exists, which would fly in the face of your other ideas regarding free will. Now I know you've postulated that there are infinite possible futures, and we simply choose which one we will move into when we take any action, but if this is the case, and your consciousness simply splipped into one of these futures while you were dreaming, your prognostication would only have a 1 in infinity chance of being correct. By the way, hyp, the mentor in the Relativity forum says you're off your rocker for suggesting that the relativity of simultaneity allows for prognostication. Maybe if one of you is moving close to the speed of light, you can see a couple of seconds into someone's future. You wouldn't be able to communicate what you saw, but it's interesting anyway.