Life Beyond DNA: Is Entropy Possible?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of entropy in relation to life and the structure of organisms, specifically questioning whether entropy can be understood at levels below DNA, including atomic or subatomic scales. Participants explore implications for the nature of life and death, as well as the complexity required for life processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that entropy may exist at levels below DNA, questioning the implications for life and death.
  • Others argue that DNA and its atomic components are inherently structured and that life requires a significant level of complexity that may not be achievable below the atomic scale.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the relevance of the "life or death" concept to the initial question about entropy.
  • There is a suggestion that the term "entropy" may be misused in the context of the discussion, with a call for clarification on its meaning.
  • Some participants acknowledge the complexity of life as a process that necessitates many interacting parts.
  • There are expressions of frustration regarding the responses received, with one participant feeling their question was not adequately considered.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of scientific inquiry and the potential for differing interpretations of established knowledge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion features multiple competing views regarding the relationship between entropy, DNA, and the complexity of life. There is no consensus on the implications of entropy at sub-DNA levels or the validity of the arguments presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the concepts of entropy and complexity, with some acknowledging potential inconsistencies in previously acquired knowledge. The discussion remains open-ended with unresolved questions about the foundational assumptions of life processes.

einsteinian77
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Could the beginning of entropy of a human, or any organism, exist below the DNA level of order? In other words, is it possible that not only DNA is structured to control what we do but also the atoms that make up the DNA or the particles that make up the atom? If so, what does this imply about life or death??
 
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DNA is such structure as described. DNA is made up of molecules, which are made up of atoms which define what molecules they are. Of course the atoms, and thus parts of atoms, define DNA which defines the outcome of DNA as a phenotype.

However, I don't understand what this "life or death" idea is, and how it has anything to do with your previous assertion, which is correct.

Please explain further.

Originally posted by einsteinian77
Could the beginning of entropy of a human, or any organism, exist below the DNA level of order? In other words, is it possible that not only DNA is structured to control what we do but also the atoms that make up the DNA or the particles that make up the atom? If so, what does this imply about life or death??
 
I'm sorry for the vagueness of that post I'll try and further the description of what I'm trying to say. What I'm asking is could there be life structures on an atomic scale or even below an atomic scale?
 
Life is a process. This process is a complex one. Hence, there need to be sufficient numbers parts to have this amount of complexity that life requires. Hence life requires a lot of interacting parts, a lot of complexity.

I do not think that there are that many different parts below an atomic scale to produce this complexity.
 
You might find this interesting einsteinian77.



The true nature of reality.
http://www.think-aboutit.com/Spiritual/what_is_the_true_nature_of_reali.htm
 
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Heads up, thanks for that article it was extremely interesting and right on my train of thought.
 
Originally posted by einsteinian77
Could the beginning of entropy of a human, or any organism, exist below the DNA level of order? In other words, is it possible that not only DNA is structured to control what we do but also the atoms that make up the DNA or the particles that make up the atom? If so, what does this imply about life or death??

first of all: we stop living when we die. (for example a flow to the back of the head with a large stone kills us)
moving on: the atoms that make up the DNA are (obviously) what "constructed to control what we do" because it is quite simply WHAT MAKES UP THE DNA! (if you follow me)

and also: you're use of the term entropy is nonsensical. entropy has to do with the temperature and disorder of a system. and it exists both above and below the "level of DNA" if by that you mean the chemicals and molecules that make up DNA.
 
Originally posted by einsteinian77
Heads up, thanks for that article it was extremely interesting and right on my train of thought.

sorry i didn't realize you thanked everyone and left! :smile:
 
I shouldn't even have posted this knowing now that Maximus has the definite answers to everything. Did you actually think about what I am asking at all or did you just simply accept what you learned in the past and repeated it to me in an arogant manner.
 
  • #10
i'm sorry, but that's every close to what i did. i compared it to previously acquired knowledge, found it to be inconsistant and replied so. what your saying isn't 'wrong', it's just redundant.
 
  • #11
Originally posted by einsteinian77
I shouldn't even have posted this knowing now that Maximus has the definite answers to everything.

and i most certainly do not claim that i have this! (i'll bet in a couple of minuets somebody will come in here and prove everything i said wrong!)
:wink:
 
  • #12
no need to apologize maximus your just being scientific and i thank you for that. By the way, i like your quote from Fight club it's one of my favorite movies
 
  • #13
Originally posted by einsteinian77
no need to apologize maximus your just being scientific and i thank you for that. By the way, i like your quote from Fight club it's one of my favorite movies

mine too.:wink:
 
  • #14
Originally posted by Dissident Dan
Life is a process. This process is a complex one. Hence, there need to be sufficient numbers parts to have this amount of complexity that life requires. Hence life requires a lot of interacting parts, a lot of complexity.

I do not think that there are that many different parts below an atomic scale to produce this complexity.
 

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