Georgian - South Ossetian - Russian Conflict

seycyrus

I think you sufficiently documented your earlier post as being an opinion.

But to address what I believe is the intent of your post, I believe that this whole scenario will strengthen US relations with the other former Soviet countries in the region.

Russia might think that they have "won" by including the right to stay in the country for 6 months to ensure security or whatnot, but the surrounding countries will certainly be watching. Any presence by the Russians over what those countries deem as a reasonable amount of time, will bring them closer to the US.

meopemuk

But they were happy to swallow Saakhashvili's lies each time he spewed them. Headlines like "Russian tanks are coming" go well with US public. Any kind words toward Russia raise eyebrows. That's how I explain the bias.


You may be surprised but you won't find many Russians who disagree about this conflict. Trust me. Of course, even in the US there are wacko's who explain 9/11 as Bush conspiracy. I can imagine that similar type views (i.e., that present conflict was started by Putin) exist in Russia. But they are tiny minority.

seycyrus

"Report" is not the same thing as "swallow".

Are there not tanks inside Georgian territory as we speak?

Nah. Kind words spoken by the russian controlled media in the absence of *any* criticism by that same media, raises eyebrows. As well it should.

And to what media source do those who have these minority views go to, to express them, and see them printed or broadcast?

All over the "western media" I have seen anti-US allegations about the cause of this whole controversy.

Show me the analog, in the russian controlled media.

meopemuk

I regularly browse Russian information websites, and I see all kind of stuff there including statements of Western leaders, links to CNN, BBC, Georgian press, etc. Russia does not try to block information (like China, for example). You probably think that Russia today is the same as Soviet Union 30 years ago. No, it isn't.

As for opponents to the current regime, the most vocal and pro-Western player is Garry Kasparov. He issued an "official statement" regarding these events.

http://www.theotherrussia.org/2008/0...ial-statement/

He does blame Russian leadership for inconsistent policy in the Caucasus, however, he does not deny that Georgian full-scale attack was the trigger:

"Why, after an attack on Russian peacekeepers by the superior forces of the opponent in Tskhinvali, did the official establishment stand in a state of stupor for several hours, and didn’t rush to provide military assistance?"

From what I heard, immediately after the attack, Russians tried to get a resolution of the UN Security Council in order to stop Georgians by diplomatic means. After this attempt failed, there was no other option but to use an overwhelming force.

baywax

"U.S. President George W. Bush accused Russia of bullying ex-Soviet Georgia, saying: "Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century."

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0...russia_georgia

This is an indication of either total hypocrisy or Alzheimer's Disease when you consider the tactics used to pull off the invasion of Iraq.

Oberst Villa

Mikhail Gorbatchev, talking with Larry King, puts the blame for the fighting on Georgia:

"This was the use of sophisticated weapons against a small town, against a sleeping people. This was a barbaric assault."

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/eu...hev/index.html

lisab

He has a severe irony deficiency.

baywax

Gokul43201

If you missed the Daily Show episode that first covered this conflict, you can thank me for this:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/0...yre-in-europe/

Watch it - it's priceless!

meopemuk

The truth of the matter is that Georgian army, police, and all authorities ran from Gori and Senaki leaving behing huge amount of ready-to-use military equipment, ammunition, etc. It would be insane to leave this area without any kind of supervision. Can you imagine if some angry person (and now there are many angry people in the area, both Georgians and Ossetians) decided to take a ride around the neighborhood in one of those tanks? I heard that Russians are exploding ammunition dumps in the area.

Another problem is that many Ossetian militiamen entered Georgia proper behind Russian army. They are not well educated on the rules of engagement and hardly obey anyone's orders. I don't think they deserve a lot of blame, because they simply took weapons to defend their families and homes. There are reports of looting. There could be some revenge killings as well. I also heard a report that Russian military commanders shot dead two looters. Nobody wants the Ossetia-Georgia border to become a site of mayhem, like in Bagdad after US invasion.

Just be patient. When the dust settles, Russians will transfer the control over to Georgian authorities. This would take a couple of days, I think. You'll continue hearing about "ceasefire violations" from the US media during this time. But it is better not to pay attention.

WarPhalange

Did anybody post this yet?

meopemuk

You can find the Russian side of the story (in English) and a lot of video footage not shown by Western media on www.russiatoday.com

roam

There is no such thing as a "Stalinist" to begin with. If you are referring to the political ideology used in the Soviet Union during Stalin's era, it's Marxism-Leninism.

Stalin was not the only one in power in the USSR. He was the general secretary of the party. There were many others involved as well but as you may know 'big guy always gets the sh*t...'

Gokul43201

According to McCain, this is the first serious international crisis since the end of the Cold War! Really? What does he consider the first Gulf War, Kosovo, 9/11, the Iraq War, the genocide in Darfur, the North Korean test firing of Taepodongs near Japanese waters, Israeli attacks in Lebanon and Iran's ongoing UN confrontation (let's even ignore the global food and fuel crises)?

And what's "Abskaiya"? Is it the territory in the north west corner of the country lead by the "US . . . educated . . . lawyer, Mikhail Sashkavili".

AhmedEzz

This just shows one why this MCcain cannot be a president. Is there anything coming from the office of Obama?

Astronuc

Q&A: Russia-Georgia Conflict Has Deep Roots
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=93525210

Hmmm. How should a nation or law enforcement agency respond to sniper fire?

How should this matter be resolved?


But then - Lack Of Western Action On Georgia Reflects History - Daniel Schorr
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=93510044

russ_watters

I probably would have chosen different words, but I see his point. None of those was serious enough that there was a risk of a lare war between nuclear superpowers.

The first Gulf War was probably the largest conflict since Vietnam in terms of the number of troops employed, but it was also relatively easy and manageable. One caveat, though: the Iraqi firing of Scuds at Israel was a somewhat serious situation because if Israel had responded, there was a possibility of the entire region erupting in conflict.

Those humanitarian conflicts are not serious in terms of their difficulty in dealing with them. We simply choose not to. I remember reading an analysis that the Rwanda conflict could have been stopped with a disturbingly small force. They are also not mostly not international crises.

Georgia is a US ally who is trying to get into NATO. If we're serious about our commitment to them, we should be sending troops there to fight the Russians. But we're not. Why?