physics v.s. actuarial science

kingwinner

But to be recognised as a "physicist", I must get a Ph.D and it takes at least 10 years in university as well, so the path to becoming a physicist is not anything easier than becoming an actuary, right?

Howers

No it doesn't. Your an actuary right after your first two exams, which most people do while in undergrad. Your not a full actuary, but you're still making 60+k a year.

Its way harder to become a physcist

Vanadium 50

I keep reading the topic as "physics vs. actual science".

will.c

I've met a few people who think that current physics research consists of nothing but string theory, and well, in that regard...

Locrian

I'm not sure there is such thing as ordinary math, and certainly actuarial science isn't an alternative. I'd say an understanding of algebra, linear algebra, calculus, probability and statistics is a good start. After spending a lot of time in physics I found financial economics to be just weird at first, but it's straightening out pretty quickly.

The general consensus is that this is true. The reason depends on who you ask, but there's little doubt that there has been many, many more physicists produced over the past thirty years than can possibly get university jobs. Luckily industry helps some, but in many areas of physics there is little to no industry, thus leaving a lot of people stuck in postdoc limbo, or worse. My experience was that if you go into an area of physics that is applicable and has a healthy private sector, your options improve.

Locrian

That's absurd. Lots of students have passed two exams before leaving college, and no one in their right mind would call them actuaries. Where the line is drawn depends on who you ask, but most people will say that becoming an associate and having at least some job experience is necessary to be called an actuary.

This seems a difficult thing to demonstrate. Out of curiosity, how many actuarial exams have you passed, and what graduate degrees do you have in physics?

Howers

My point is you are employed full time. You don't count working full time after your bachelor and studying part time, often at work, as "time devoted to becoming an actuary". Its more like getting experience, with some reading.

Not as much as you, if that is your point. 2 and none.

By harder to become a physicist I mean more schooling is neccessary and employment is scarce. It is harder to find a position that is not in demand. As for subject content, I'd still imagine physics is MUCH harder than actuarial science. But maybe you can tell me about that? It sounds as though "kingwinner" has been informed that actuarial science may be too hard for him, and that he should consider a physics PhD instead - which I find absurd.

kingwinner

Does anyone have more to say about having a degree in "mathematical applications in finance and econonmics"? What are the kinds of jobs I can do?

kingwinner

I am not sure if I like business, but I enjoy working in an office environment.

I like universities, but I do not enjoy labortary work very much, and I wouldn't prefer an industrial job. I don't like getting my hands dirty. However, I love and I am good at the theoretical aspects of physics.
Is physicist not for me?

alligatorman

Well if you're good at and like theoretical physicist, then I would say it's for you. Just be aware of how difficult it is to become one these days.

mal4mac

Read:

My Life as a Quant: Reflections on Physics and Finance
by Emanuel Derman

Locrian

I might be in a unique position to compare physics and actuarial work, but I'm still new to the field. Thus if anyone is looking for more and better information on the work actuaries do, job opportunities and other useful information, I'd highly suggest DW Simpson's FAQ post on the Actuarial Outpost.

n0_3sc

EDIT: Sorry, I understood that you were a beginning undergraduate student. Am I mistaken? From first year studies you may consider yourself "good" at theoretical physics, but graduate theoretical physics is FAR different. It is an entirely new language.

Locrian:
Thanks for the very informative description of actuarial science.

avant-garde

So, if I get a degree in actuarial science, is that too narrow to be able to pursue something like mathematical/computational finance, statistics, etc? (in case I end up deciding that actuarial is not for me)

yoyo100

Hey,

Are there any actuaries on this forum? If so, can you tell us a little bit about your background and about how you got into the actuarial profession. I am seriously considering pursuing a career as an actuary, but I would like to learn more about the job and what kind of people like it.

Thank you.

lubuntu

Wow, talk about a enough with the euphemistic language, I mean actuarial science, SCIENCE?, really?

Excuse me I have to get back to my job as Ancillary Ground Bovine Technician.

Locrian

Have you read through the actuarial outpost FAQ thread I posted earlier here? It is invaluable to someone considering the profession.

I'm an actuary (well, actuarial analyst is more accurate, which denotes that I'm early in my career). My background is a BS and MS in physics, with a couple of years experience working for a private company doing research.

I got into the actuarial profession by taking Exam FM and contacting a recruiter. I've had my job for less than a year now, and have thoroughly enjoyed it so far. This is the most satisfied I've ever been with my career, though there is still plenty of time for that to change ;)

As for what kind of people are actuaries, well first and foremost, you need to understand (as I've mentioned earlier in the thread) that actuaries are business people first and anything else (statisticians, mathematicians, researchers etc.) second. The culture in an actuarial department is very different from, say, the sales department, but it is also different from a university or private research department.

I also have some bad news - it is currently very hard to get an entry level job as an actuary. There is still a shortage of credentialed actuaries, but firms just aren't hiring new entry level people. It's always been a bit harder to break into the career than it is made to sound, and the economy has exacerbated that. However, if you are still a year or more from looking for a job, things could be very different by the time you do.

To be honest, the question of what kind of people are actuaries is hard to answer. If you can narrow it down any, or have other specific questions, I'd be happy to help.