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Conservation of information in quantum mechanics

by Mountain Math Software
Tags: conservation, information, mechanics, quantum
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Mountain Math Software
#1
Aug21-08, 05:00 AM
P: n/a
I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
the conservation of information in quantum mechanics. Any
deterministic time reversible theory must conserve information and I
believe the evolution of the wave function satisfies this. However,
whenever an observation is made it would seem that new information is
created. How is the absolute conservation of information in the
physical universe reconciled with this?

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alfansome
#2
Aug22-08, 05:00 AM
P: n/a
On Aug 20, 2:55 pm, Mountain Math Software <mtnm...@mtnmath.com>
wrote:
> I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
> the conservation of information in quantum mechanics. Any
> deterministic time reversible theory must conserve information and I
> believe the evolution of the wave function satisfies this. However,
> whenever an observation is made it would seem that new information is
> created. How is the absolute conservation of information in the
> physical universe reconciled with this?


I believe that your assumption that the physical universe can operate
in a time reversible manner is suspect.

al

kushal
#3
Aug22-08, 05:00 AM
P: n/a
On Aug 21, 12:55=A0am, Mountain Math Software <mtnm...@mtnmath.com>
wrote:
> I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
> the conservation of information in quantum mechanics. Any
> deterministic time reversible theory must conserve information and I
> believe the evolution of the wave function satisfies this. However,
> whenever an observation is made it would seem that new information is
> created. How is the absolute conservation of information in the
> physical universe reconciled with this?


Information is related to energy. And in QM, conservation of energy
can be violated because of the uncertainty principle. Thats why
virtual particles can disobey the principle of conservation of energy
and still be describable by a physical theory.

And it is actually not quite correct to talk of energy/information of
the whole universe, because its infinite. No matter how much you add
to it or subtract from it, it always remains infinite. So, the
significance of the idea of conservation of energy or information of
the whole universe is debatable.

Kushal.


J. J. Lodder
#4
Aug23-08, 05:00 AM
P: n/a
Conservation of information in quantum mechanics

Mountain Math Software <mtnmath@mtnmath.com> wrote:

> I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
> the conservation of information in quantum mechanics. Any
> deterministic time reversible theory must conserve information and I
> believe the evolution of the wave function satisfies this. However,
> whenever an observation is made it would seem that new information is
> created. How is the absolute conservation of information in the
> physical universe reconciled with this?


The system together with the observer have a wave function too,
that's why there is something called 'the measurement problem'.

Furthermore you may note that 'the wave function of the universe'
is not a wel defined (or even a definable) concept,

Jan

Douglas Eagleson
#5
Aug23-08, 05:00 AM
P: n/a
On Aug 20, 3:55=A0pm, Mountain Math Software <mtnm...@mtnmath.com>
wrote:
> I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
> the conservation of information in quantum mechanics. Any
> deterministic time reversible theory must conserve information and I
> believe the evolution of the wave function satisfies this. However,
> whenever an observation is made it would seem that new information is
> created. How is the absolute conservation of information in the
> physical universe reconciled with this?


A careful meaning to information must be actually defined. A momenta
change as a cause to observation was always the physical meaning of
information. A change in system as a observation then allows all
effect as information conservation. Causality of information as
subjective human interaction of the mind appears the common
confusion. A mind act has zero momenta information to transfer to the
system.

SO always use system parameter as the definition of information. All
parameters will be conserved as long as certain critera are met.
Nother's thoery as a symmetry of t, where t is a variable, must cause
the property of conservation in all allowable systems. Symmetry as
observable parameter then becomes a kind of effect. A mathematical
effect of functional symmetry allows only one definition to
information.

The functional parameter then became an effect of symmetric formal
theory. Nother's theory will always be observed true, making it a
principle of all information.

A violation implies a failed functional usage. Here is a failed
example:

A momenta as conserved would imply a velocity conserved as long as all
matter was a certain size. A function becomes symmetric by use of a
common matter size. And the failure was a common size as all things
are in reality many sizes. So the symmetric calculation appear
definable as a parameter.

ANd here is the menaing of parameter, an observable. In quantum
theory a parameter was a physical degree-of-freedom. Implying all
symmetric as a cause to effect.

So, I have proven in Gedanken the act of information conservation, for
the act then allows no parameter only size of parameter. A mistaken
information definition, not.

jwill@BasicISP.net
#6
Aug24-08, 05:00 AM
P: n/a
On Aug 20, 12:55pm, Mountain Math Software <mtnm...@mtnmath.com>
wrote:
> I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
> the conservation of information in quantum mechanics. Any
> deterministic time reversible theory must conserve information and I
> believe the evolution of the wave function satisfies this. However,
> whenever an observation is made it would seem that new information is
> created. How is the absolute conservation of information in the
> physical universe reconciled with this?


Hi. my connection died during my last post; I hope this isn't a
duplicate:

Information is formally equivalent to entropy, which can not be a
conserved quantity; therefore, information can not be a conserved
quantity, even if reformulated in quantum operators.

Gerard Westendorp
#7
Aug25-08, 05:00 AM
P: n/a
Mountain Math Software wrote:
> I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
> the conservation of information in quantum mechanics.


Check out the wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_h...mation_paradox

Susskind was probably talking about "information" in the sense of the
above article.

Gerard



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