Weight lifting

Hootenanny

Click here and scroll down to the section "How To Perform The RDL (Romanian Deadlift)".

gravenewworld

I'll have to give 'em a try. Thanks.

JasonRox

What was the argument all about?

I do have to say that the biggest mistakes in the gym is bad form, and the inability to do more weight. Those are the two biggest faults.

Proton Soup

soreness or burn isn't always a good indicator. lack of soreness often simply means that you are well-adapted to that exercise. many exercises do not make me sore at all unless i've been on a layoff for a while.

i'm not even sure i'd be trying to get soreness in the lower back. that's the sort of thing that tends to put me out of commission for a while. mostly, deadlift hits my hams, glutes, and traps, but if you add some weight, you may notice you feel it everywhere, even places like deltoids.

another thing, if you've got your feet pointing straight ahead, you may want to angle them out a few degrees.

OAQfirst

Why?

Proton Soup

i can't remember if it's supposed to increase glute or hamstring activation, but it should make for a stronger pull.

Moonbear

I'd suggest that rather than attempting to hand out generic advice here, instead one recommend that people seek out the advice of a certified trainer or someone with an exercise physiology or related degree. Individual anatomical differences can necessitate adjustments to one's form to accomplish the same task, or even disqualify certain exercises as unsafe for some people. There is no way to determine this without actually looking at a person and identifying their physical structure.

Proton Soup

it's not a terribly technical lift like some of the olympic lifts, but here's some stuff from an expert:

basic setup for a conventional deadlift stance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA

and some more technical discussion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vue17...eature=related

Hootenanny

Soreness and burn and two totally different phenomena. Burn is the 'burning sensation' that you feel whilst or immediately after completing an exercise. Muscle 'burn' indicates muscle fatigue, which is what you should be aiming for if your doing weight-lifting.

Soreness, particularly delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), is the ache you feel after you have completed your work-out; or in the case of DOMS between one and four days later. This soreness indicates that you have significantly broken down the muscle fibres during your workout and that the fibres are beginning to repair themselves during the process of muscle hypertrophy. DOMS is a common symtopom if you are following an intensive training regime. However, if the muscle soreness persists for more than a few days, it can indicate over-training and is one of the early indicators of 'burn-out'.
The OP didn't say that they wanted to feel stress in their lower back, they simply stated that they weren't. That said, that I agree that the dead-lift is an excellent exercise and recruits many different muscle groups, particularly the core stability muscles if one keeps strict form.
I have to agree with Moonbear here, what works best for you may not work for everyone else. Foot placement in particular, is highly individualised and depends not only on your skeletal structure, but also your musculature. If you find that you perform many of your exercises or walk with your feet slightly abducted it can be a sign of weakness in your external hip rotators (gluteus medius).

Moonbear

You've completely missed my point that generic advice does NOT work for everyone. There is a range of normal anatomical variation that needs to be taken into account, and a properly certified trainer or person with an appropriate degree can understand that and suggest safe adaptations to exercises. And, they can also watch to make sure you do it right. The biggest mistakes in gyms are from people who never use a trainer and just assume they can do what they see other people doing.

For example, my knees are not aligned quite right. All those years of gym teachers instructing to do exercises with my toes pointed straight up have probably taken several years off the lifespan of my knees before I'm going to need a knee replacement. Any exercises I do for my thigh or leg muscles NEEDS to take this into account. If I were to just follow the instructions on a video, I'd be causing major harm to my knees. I have the anatomical knowledge to make the needed adjustments, but most people don't. And, I still ask one of the exercise physiologists to watch my form to make sure I'm doing what I think I'm doing and help me make minor adjustments.

Proton Soup

not everyone trains to get the "burn". lactic acid accumulation something that tends to happen with higher rep schemes. if you're training for strength, you may not "feel the burn". and for something like deadlift, where you're lifting heavy, i think it's a very bad idea to suggest. fatigue and maintaining a rigid spine do not go together very well. save that type of training for running or cycling.

it could mean that one has tight piriformis muscles if you walk that way normally. that's really got not much to do with having a slight angle out when you deadlift and squat, tho.

Hootenanny

True, at lower repetitions one may not feel the burn, but I have to disagree that when lifting heavy you should not fatigue your muscles. The whole idea of weight-training is to fatigue your muscles - if you don't break down the muscle fibres, they will never hypertrophy. There are only a few exercise where it is dangerous to go to complete failure, back-squats being one of them. Fatiguing your muscles doesn't mean that you have to loose your form, it is perfectly possible to go to complete failure whilst keeping strict form and in the case of dead-lift there is no reason why you can't go to complete failure, provided that you do keep strict form. Once you've reached failure, all you need do is drop the bar.
Erm... the piriformis is one of the hip rotators? But that's beside the point, my point was exactly the same as Moonbears - suggesting that someone modify their form based solely on your own experiences is a bad idea.

Proton Soup

OK, so you're broken, i get that. the suggestion was simply to try it without the toes pointing straight up. he'll either get more hamstring activation or not, it's simply an experiment. your knee problems may also have nothing at all to do with this. you've got an injury and you're working around it.

and the instructions by rippetoe are taking variation into account. some people with longer legs simply won't be able to get their butt down as far before the shins touch the bar, and this will limit how much they can lift in a conventional style.

Proton Soup

no, this is completely wrong. it's not simply lactic acid buildup that causes or indicates break down of muscle fibers. that burn is indicating fuel usage, not microtrauma to the muscle fiber.

Hootenanny

I never said that the burn was related to muscle breakdown (see my earlier posts). The comment regarding muscle fibre breakdown and failure was in reference to your comment regarding fatigue heavy weight. Perhaps I should have used a full stop rather than a comma.

Moonbear

No, I'm not "broken." This is the natural way my body has formed...since birth. And, you DON'T want to experiment with form. You want to get a proper evaluation and do it right from the start. Experimentation is how one ends up with injuries! Please don't recommend irresponsible activities here!

You're also incorrect to just lump together actions of the "glutes" as you put it. There are THREE gluteal muscles, the gluteus maximus, gluteus medius, and gluteus minimus. They do NOT all have the same functions...in fact, the fibers of those muscles run in completely different directions. The gluteus maximums extends the thigh and laterally rotates it. By contrast, the gluteus medius and minimus muscles medially rotate the thigh. These are OPPOSING functions of those muscles.

The piriformis is a lateral rotator and only functions in abduction if the thigh is already flexed at the hip, along with the gemelli and obturator internus muscles. However, the gluteus medius is the stronger abductor.

And to lump all the hamstring muscles together is also inaccurate. Turning one's leg either medially or laterally would work different ones of the hamstring muscles, preferentially, since they insert on either side of the leg below the knee. I would not recommend over-exerting one preferentially to the others, because they do have their greatest strength as a group.

Consider this official caution not to continue recommending specific exercises and techniques in lieu of a proper trainer present, because that is more likely to get someone injured than to help.

Proton Soup

very well, but i am curious. are you a runner?