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When did H2O develop during the last 13.5 b y?by baywax
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#37
Feb409, 12:21 AM

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So it wasn't until second generation suns grew large enough and heavy enough to implode and explode that we could see a large variety of elements being made available to the "cosmos". According to Orion1 the maximum amount of time available for this to take place was 12.63 billion years. Were second generation suns and super novas taking place this early in the formation of the universe? 


#38
Feb409, 12:43 AM

P: 989

The minimum time required for a second and third generation star to form in the Universe: [tex]t_3 = (t_u  t_0) = (13.85  13.2) \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y} = 0.65 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}[/tex] [tex]\boxed{t_3 = 0.65 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}}[/tex] The first generation star, named Baywax, formed from a nebula to become a Type 0 Hypergiant and is the star that the second generation HE 15230901 star's nuclear fuel originated from, as shown by the second generation metallicity ([Fe/H]=2.95) and Relative Flux spectrum, and could only have a lifetime of less than 650 Million years, which means the first generation star burned extremely hot and rapid fusion rate and went Type II supernova over 13.2 Billion years ago. Reference: star: HE_15230901  CGI star: HE_15230901  Wikipedia star: HE_15230901  astronomyonline.org star: HE_15230901  Relative Flux spectrum Hypergiant  Wikipedia Supernova  Wikipedia 


#39
Feb409, 11:03 AM

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#40
Feb409, 11:12 AM

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In addition to asking when H2O first developed after the BB (by which I meant liquid water... and didn't mention it) I was going to ask "where"... but it appears that, with the universe lacking a centre, there is no real reference point with which to ascertain a position for the first development of liquid water.



#41
Feb409, 10:33 PM

P: 989

Water vapor has been discovered near a quasar 11.1 Billion light years away. Age of water vapor: [tex]t_a = 11.1 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}[/tex] The minimum time required for water vapor to form in Universe: [tex]t_{wv} = (t_u  t_a) = (13.85  11.1) \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y} = 2.75 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}[/tex] [tex]\boxed{t_{wv} = 2.75 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}}[/tex] Reference: sciencedaily  water vapor discovered near quasar 11.1 Billion light years away image: distant water vapor spectrum Physics World  Amino acid detected in space 


#42
Feb509, 11:32 AM

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Thank you Orion1, again! The question you've now brought up for me is was the red dwarf in the Milky Way here before the formation of the galaxy? Just trying to clarify the model. I also wonder if you need galactic gravity to form a habitable 3rd generation solar system. 


#43
Feb509, 10:06 PM

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Oldest star age in Galaxy: (HE 15230901, Milky Way) [tex]t_0 = 13.2 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}[/tex] Galaxy age: (Milky Way) [tex]t_G = 6.5 \; \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}}[/tex] [tex]\Delta t = (t_0  t_G) = (13.2  6.5) \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y} = 6.7 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}[/tex] [tex]\boxed{\Delta t = 6.7 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}}[/tex] This red giant formed some 6.7 Billion years before the Milky Way galaxy formation. 


#44
Feb509, 10:18 PM

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So we do have 3 spans of time (4.6 billion or so years each) to add to the probablility of water based, intelligent life evolving in and on a suitable planet/environment. Some may never have come to fruition and some may have surpassed our own version of civilization, given the chance, plus, less bolide bombardments and a stable sun. This has been absolutely great getting all this help, thank you! 


#45
Feb509, 11:13 PM

P: 989

Manfred Schidlowski's 'organic matter' is fossilized 3.85 billion year old selfreplicating RNA life. SelfReplicating RNA life was formed earlier in the HadeanBasin Groups era within the liquid water oceans and heavy CO2 atmosphere and high atmospheric_pressure and 230°C surface temperature and spectated and survived the HadeanLower Imbrian era Late Heavy Bombardment. Reference: Abiogenesis  Wikipedia Geologic time scale  Wikipedia Hadean  Wikipedia Late Heavy Bombardment  Wikipedia 


#46
Feb609, 01:04 AM

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The only alternative is that panspermia took place in the form of interloping, intersolar system spores, viruses or bacteria that flourished in the heat of the early years of earth, not to mention an early source of liquid H20. Why did it take 4.6 billion years to produce us? The challenges were many. What were the setbacks to the development of life on earth? Did the challenges help to forge a better outcome (like humans) or was that result simply delayed? 


#47
Feb609, 01:52 AM

P: 104

Hello
The solar system formed from a star that went supernova leaving behind a compact core that evolved a solar envelope, the remaining debries remained in chaos for millions of years, it was the survival of the stable that acted as a gravity sink and grew into the planets and dwarf planets that we see today. 5 Billion years ago the Earth started to cool, still to hot for wate to condense. 4.5 Billion years ago water stated to condense and form running water, creating sedimentary rocks, that gives us an estimate of stable running water. 4 Billion years the oceans formed and for a billion years no life. It took a billion years in water for the simple virus to form, its ability to duplicate gave rise to life on Earth it formed the bases and evolution of the modern cell of all life. This all happened in a dust particle called Earth. The question is how old was the Star that went Supernova. Its phase could be about 12 Billion years old. The other question is how long did it take for the Milky way to form a spiral and in between that merging with other galaxies and having 40 odd dwarf galaxies rotating around it. The other question is how long did it take the milky way group to form part of a large local group of galaxies. The questions keep on going and going to the "N" degree. Is it possible for all this to form in just 13.7 Billion years. OOPs I forgot to mention the odd 100 billion galaxies that we can observe in 13.2 Gyrs deep field images that are expected to form in just 500 million years. Compared to life such as the virus took one billion years to evolve. Am I missing something? 


#48
Feb609, 03:31 AM

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[tex]t_a = 0.61 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}[/tex] Minimum time required for selfreplicating RNA lifeform to evolve into multicellular DNA lifeform in Universe: [tex]t_{mc} = t_l  t_a = (4.0  0.61) \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y} = 3.39 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}[/tex] [tex]\boxed{t_{mc} = 3.39 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}}[/tex] Minimum time required for multicellular DNA lifeform to form in Universe: [tex]t_{mcu} = t_{RNA} + t_{mc} = (1.22 + 3.39) \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y} = 4.61 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}[/tex] [tex]\boxed{t_{mcu} = 4.61 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}}[/tex] The history of life in the early Universe was that of the selfreplicating RNA, prokaryotes, unicellular eukaryotes and archaea. Current maximum amount of evolutionary time in Universe for multicellular DNA life: [tex]t_e = t_u  t_{mcu} = (13.85  4.61) \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y} = 9.24 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}[/tex] [tex]\boxed{t_e = 9.24 \cdot 10^9 \; \text{y}}[/tex] Reference: Evolution  Wikipedia Ediacara biota  Wikipedia Cryptic era  Orion1  #33 


#49
Feb609, 08:02 PM

P: 104

Hello Orion
Your dates taken from Wikipedia in my opinion are in error. One in particular the first life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evoluti...lution_of_life The question as to the origin is a main issue. Did life come from out there or can life start from just a mixture of chemicals. 


#50
Feb709, 01:13 AM

P: 989

Greetings, Sundance Sundance, I noticed that your forum rebuttal challenged as error, at least three published scientific papers as reference: Reference: Cell evolution and Earth history: stasis and revolution Abiogenesis  Wikipedia Panspermia  Wikipedia 


#51
Feb709, 04:29 PM

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#52
Feb709, 05:25 PM

P: 104

Hello Mheslep
My last reading showed life fossils 3 Gys From your ref it seems that fossils show life at 3.5 Gys. That means they must have evolved millions of years earlier or been planted from out there. It would be quite interesting to find a fossil path. Wishful thinking 


#53
Feb709, 05:54 PM

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#54
Feb809, 12:26 AM

P: 104

Hello
Sometimes the word ooops comes to play. 


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