Rate of heat transfer and heat conductors

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the rate of heat transfer between a cold pool of water and hot air, considering factors such as temperature, surface area, and the introduction of a thermal insulating layer. It includes theoretical and mathematical aspects of heat transfer, particularly focusing on conduction, convection, and radiation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Alex poses a question about calculating the rate of heat exchange between a cold pool of water and hot air, asking for the impact of adding a layer of material with known thermal conductivity.
  • One participant suggests that the calculation is not straightforward and raises the importance of the vessel's wall temperature and its thickness relative to the water volume.
  • Another participant emphasizes the complexity introduced by environmental factors like wind, which affects heat loss through conduction, convection, and radiation.
  • There is a mention of needing to set up a 2D heat flow equation and considering evaporation as a potential heat loss mechanism, albeit minor.
  • Participants discuss the necessity of temperature differences and material properties for thermal conductivity calculations, indicating that the situation can become mathematically complex.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the complexity of the calculations involved, with some agreeing on the need for detailed mathematical modeling while others highlight practical considerations like environmental effects. No consensus is reached on a definitive method or solution.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the vessel's properties, the influence of environmental conditions, and the need for specific boundary conditions in mathematical modeling. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in thermodynamics, heat transfer calculations, and those studying or working in fields related to physics and engineering.

alexbib
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lets say you have the following situation: you have a cold pool of water, and hot air outside. how do you calculate the rate at which heat is exchanged (given Twater and Tair, the surface area of the pool, etc.)?
Now, let's say you add a layer of a certain material x meters thick that has a known thermal conductivity between air and water. how is the rate of heat transfer modified?

Thanks,

Alex
 
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don't tell me nobody here knows how to do that...
 
It's not a straightforward calculation :
If the water is contained in a vessel or cavity, what is the temperature of the walls of the vessel/cavity. Is this temperature going to change, ie : is the vessel infinitely thick compared to the volume of water ?)

You need to set up a 2D heat flow equation inside the water, and you need to add heat loss due to evaporation (though this is probably small). Assume some temperature distribution T(r,z) for a cylindrical pool. Then :

[tex]Q_r = -KA(r) {\frac {\partial{T}} {\partial{r}}}, and[/tex]
[tex]A(r) = 2\pi rh[/tex]

Similarly for the z-direction. Try a separable solution. Put in the boundary conditions and solve.
 
Last edited:
Its a little bit complicated for the pool because a little bit of wind makes a vast difference. Heat will leave the pool through all three typical ways: conduction (water touching the air), convection (air moving around above the water), and radiation (like a light bulb). The temperature difference is key though.

Thermal conductivity in a single material is easier: you need temperature difference from one side to the other, thickness, and conductivity.

You want some actual math? It gets pretty rough...
 

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