Are Fingerprints a Result of Genetic Code or Environment?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the origins of fingerprints, specifically whether they are determined by genetic code or influenced by environmental factors. Participants explore the implications of identical twins having different fingerprints despite sharing identical genetic material, raising questions about the role of stochastic factors and gene expression.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the differing fingerprints of identical twins suggest that fingerprints may not be solely a result of genetic code.
  • Others argue that fingerprints develop under stochastic factors, implying a role for chance and environmental influences.
  • A participant presents an example of a genetic disease affecting identical twins differently, suggesting that environmental factors can influence the expression of genetic traits.
  • Questions arise about the certainty of identical genetic makeup among twins, with one participant questioning whether all base pairs have been compared to confirm genetic identity.
  • Another participant asserts that identical twins are genetically identical due to their origin from a single fertilized egg, while acknowledging the potential for mutations during cell division.
  • Discussion includes the idea that gene expression can vary based on external and internal factors, complicating the notion of genetic identity.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the definitions of internal and external factors in the context of gene expression.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between genetics and fingerprints, with no consensus reached on whether fingerprints are determined by genetic code or environmental factors. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of identical twins having different fingerprints.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the uncertainty surrounding the extent of genetic identity among identical twins and the influence of environmental factors on gene expression, which are not fully understood.

Imparcticle
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Identical twins have identical genetic codes. [Some if not all]* Identical twins also have different finger prints. This induces me to wonder if finger prints are a result of the genetic code or not. If the genetic codes of identical twins are identical, then, if finger prints are manifested from the genetic code, then their finger prints should also be identical. But apparently that is not true. Could it be that (this idea may sound rather outlandish) finger prints developsaccording to the environment like personalities? Could the finger prints of two identical twins be identical at birth but eventually change? Well, I know the aforementioned questions suggest awkward conclusions, but that's what occurred to me when the problem 'introduced itself' in my mind.




*I'm not sure whether or not this fact applies to all identical twins or only some. If my presentation of this assumed fact is incorrect, please do the honors of correcting me.
 
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Fingerprints of identical prints are not identical, they develop under the influence of stochastic factors: involving chance, probability, containing a random variable.
 
If identical twins have the same exact genetic composition, and their finger prints are not the same, then one can conclude finger prints are not directly related to the genetic code.
 
Right, but making such conclusions isn't always easy though :)

For instance, there is a genetic disease that is a lysosomal storage disorder where an identical twin was documented where one was ill and the other was not. Both had the same mutation in the gene that causes the disease. What happened is that likely one got a more severe infection early in life that caused more storage material to accumulate in the lysosomes, beyond a level that could be cleared by the patient. The other always just stayed below the critical level and thus had no symptoms.

So that is a case where a genetic mutation in a gene causes a disease, but the penetrance is not 100%, so one gets sick and the other does not.
 
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how do we know that identical twins have identical genetic makeup?
Has someone actually read, recorded and compared all 3 billion base pairs in the DNA of sets of identical twins?
 
Genetic twins come from a single fertilized egg that after a few divisions split into separate clumps of cells and developed separately. Since they came from the same fertilized egg, they are genetically identical. Ofcourse, mutations are introduced in the genome during mitosis, I'm not sure about the rate. But since only 3% of all DNA is coding you can be pretty sure that they are as identical as can be.
 
For instance, there is a genetic disease that is a lysosomal storage disorder where an identical twin was documented where one was ill and the other was not. Both had the same mutation in the gene that causes the disease. What happened is that likely one got a more severe infection early in life that caused more storage material to accumulate in the lysosomes, beyond a level that could be cleared by the patient. The other always just stayed below the critical level and thus had no symptoms.

That is truly intriguing. So identical twins aren't quite so identical? Is that what this tells us?
 
They are identical genetically, but genes are selective expressed and expressed to differing degrees depending on circumstances both under the control of others genes and, more importantly, not under the control of any genetic factor or, for that matter, any factor internal to the organism.
 
What characterizes an internal factor? an external factor? What differentiates the two?
 

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