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Unbounded operators in non-relativistic QM of one spin-0 particle |
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| Apr14-09, 09:21 PM | #52 |
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Unbounded operators in non-relativistic QM of one spin-0 particlehis remarks about lack of care. I noticed the same thing as soon as I started to try and follow Maurin's proof of the nuclear spectral theorem. I had to keep flipping backwards tediously to double-check notations, often finding things that I felt sure were typos. Worse, even though the book came with an errata list at the back, I had trouble matching it with what was in the text(!) (sigh). Look's like I'll have to try harder to obtain a copy of Gelfand & Vilenkin and see whether their presentations is any better. TBH, I'm quite surprised and disappointed that I couldn't find a clear pedagogical proof in a more modern text, given it's importance in modern quantum theory. of knowledge. Books are supposed to be for lesser mortals. |
| Apr14-09, 09:51 PM | #53 |
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a couple of things from a direction I hadn't explored adequately... I hope you can say a bit more about that. Dirac bra-ket notation, we have [tex] \phi(f) ~=~ \int{\phi(x)f(x)}dx ~=~ \langle\phi| \int{|x\rangle\langle x|}dx ~ |f\rangle ~=~ \langle \phi | f\rangle [/tex] with [tex] \langle x|x'\rangle ~=~ \delta(x - x') ~,~~~\mbox{etc.} [/tex] So in the more general case we're dealing with functions over distributions (which involving products of distributions in general), and then trying to figure out how to construct (higher-order?) functionals over these functions? |
| Apr15-09, 04:29 AM | #54 |
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As you know a distribution [itex]T(x)[/itex] is a continuous linear functional over the space of test functions [itex]\mathcal{D}[/itex]. However one can reverse this and consider a test function [itex]f[/itex] as a function on distributions. A given test function [itex]f[/itex] maps any distribution [itex]T[/itex] to [itex]T(f)[/itex], resulting in a map over the whole space of distributions. [itex]f:\mathcal{D}^*(\mathbb R^3) \rightarrow \mathbb R[/itex]. So one writes this function over distributions as [itex]f(T)[/itex]. One can then immediately arrive at more general functions for instance: [itex]f(T)g(T)[/itex] [itex]f(T)g(T)h(T)[/itex] or [itex]e^{f(T)}[/itex] Since one can choose a any test function, this results in an enormous space of functions over Distributions. In the case of a free quantum field, the quantum field operator acts as a "multiplication operator". For example: [itex]\phi(g) = \int{\phi(x)g(x)}dx[/itex] Then, [itex]\phi(g)f(T) = g(T)f(T)[/itex] The conjuagate momentum field [tex]\pi(x)[/tex] acts like the momentum operator from regular QM by being a derivative. In rough language: [itex]\pi(x)f(T) = -i\frac{\delta}{\delta T}f(T)[/itex] The Hamiltonian is composed of [itex]\pi(x)[/itex] and [itex]\phi(x)[/itex] and so it acts in a natural way. Like all quantum mechanical theories though, we don't allow just any functions, but only square integrable ones. So one requires a notion of integration for this functions, formally something like: [itex]\int{f(T)}dT[/itex]. This can be done, although the details are a bit involved. For the purpose of the remainder of this post let's assume we have done this for the free theory. We have the correct measure [itex]dT_{free}[/itex], the Hilbert space of square integrable functions with respect to it and the Hamiltonian, field and conjugate momentum operators acting in the way I described above. This space is basically Fock space. However when one comes to [itex]\phi(x)^4[/tex] theory for example, the Hamiltonian gains an additional term: [itex]\int{\phi(x)^4}dx[/itex] It is very difficult to know exactly how one should interpret this. [itex](\int{\phi(x)^4}dx)f(T) = ?[/itex] There are two problems here. [itex]\phi(x)[/itex] is a operator valued distribution. When integrated it gives operators on [itex]L^2(\mathcal{D}^*(\mathbb R^3), dT_{free})[/itex]. Due to its distributional nature no sense can be made of [tex]\phi(x)^4[/itex]. One could attempt to come up with some way of powering distributions, however this powering system must respect the fact that [itex](\int{\phi(x)^4}dx)[/itex] is meant to be a linear operator and respect certain commutation relations. Let's approach this problem first in two dimensions then in three dimensions. Two dimensions It turned out (again avoiding details) that there was one unique notion of powering which respects the structure of [itex](\int{\phi(x)^4}dx)[/itex] as a quantum operator. This notion was actually already known to physicists as Wick ordering. So we replace: [itex](\int{\phi(x)^4}dx)[/itex] with [itex](\int{:\phi(x)^4:}dx)[/itex]. One can then prove that the full Hamiltonian is self-adjoint and semi-bounded (stable, no negative energy), the time evolution operator is unitary, e.t.c. Everything one wants from a QFT basically. This was done by James Glimm and Arthur Jaffe in the period 1968-1973. Three dimensions Here things get significantly harder. Where as one can put the proof of the two dimensional case into a semester long graduate course, the proof of the three dimensional case is a monster. However let me paint a picture. Basically we try what we did before and replace [itex](\int{\phi(x)^4}dx)[/itex] with [itex](\int{:\phi(x)^4:}dx)[/itex]. However one finds that this does not result in the full Hamiltonian being a self-adjoint operator. If you are very clever you can prove that this problem can not be overcome, unless you leave [itex]L^2(\mathcal{D}^*(\mathbb R^3), dT_{free})[/itex], that is leave Fock space and move to another space of square integrable functions over distributions. Let me call it: [itex]L^2(\mathcal{D}^*(\mathbb R^3), dT_{Glimm})[/itex]. However finding this space is incredibly diffcult, so one uses the condition that on this correct space the physical mass of a particle should be finite. This condition show you how to get to this new space. Basically, cutoff the fields so that you do the analysis in a more clear cut way, then use the condition of finite mass. This condition tells you that you should add the term: [itex]\delta m^2(\int{:\phi(x)^2:}dx)[/itex] to the Hamiltonian. The [itex]\delta m^2[/itex] is a constant that will go infinite when the cutoff is removed, whose explicit form is given by the finite mass condition. As the cutoff is removed, this extra term does the job of "pushing" us into the correct space [itex]L^2(\mathcal{D}^*(\mathbb R^3), dT_{Glimm})[/itex], which is alot easier than finding it abstractly. Physicists will know this procedure as mass renormalization. We then take the remove the cutoff. James Glimm proved that this moves us into the correct space and that the full Hamiltonian is self-adjoint there. Glimm and Jaffe later proved that the Hamiltonian is also semibounded (in what is considered the most difficult paper in mathematical physics, lots of heavy analysis). Shortly after came all the the other properties one wants, Lorentz invariance, e.t.c. Thus proving the rigorous existence of [itex]\phi^4[/itex] in three dimensions. As you can imagine the four dimensional case is extremely difficult. For five dimensions and greater, Jürg Fröhlich has shown that there is no space where the [itex](\int{\phi(x)^4}dx)[/itex] term makes sense, unless you set the interaction to zero, that is make it free. People have also shown the existence of Yukawa theories in two and three dimensions, as well as gauge and Higgs theories in two and three dimensions. Tadeusz Balaban has gotten pretty far although with Yang-Mills theory in two and three dimensions. He has even gotten some results for the four dimensional case. One final thing I wish to emphasize is that renormalization is not the difficulty in rigorous quantum field theory. Renormalization is a necessary technique, as it has been known for a long time the most interacting theories simply cannot live in the same space as the free theory (Haag's theorem). The actual difficulty is with standard analytic stuff, proving convergence and obtaining estimates which tell you something about a limit besides the fact that it exists. I hope this helps. |
| Apr15-09, 01:21 PM | #55 |
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I don't understand why the space of distributions is the classical configuration space. Can you elaborate on that? Also, if it's possible to explicitly write down the measure of the free theory and explain why it's the right one, I'd appreciate it. ![]() Seriously, I think it's hard just to find out where you can learn this stuff. I took three classes on quantum mechanics and two on quantum field theory at my university, and they didn't say anything about these things. (They mentioned the word "distribution" and said that you can use that concept to make sense of the delta function, but that's where they stopped). I'll stop here because it seems dumb to ask about advanced stuff when I'm still struggling with the "easy" stuff. |
| Apr16-09, 05:50 AM | #56 |
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By more general functions I just meant I can define more functions than only the linear ones. You can also solve the Klien-Gordon equation to obtain the free field and work out the generating functional for the theory. If you have the generating functional then by a theorem called Minlos theorem, you know there exists a measure on the space of distributions which reproduces this generating functional and this the correct measure. I'll define the measure in my next post, however you actually already know the measure and how to integrate with it. |
| Apr17-09, 10:24 AM | #57 |
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Thank you DarMM. This is good stuff, and very interesting. Maybe you can also tell me what I would have to read to learn this stuff?
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| Apr17-09, 11:05 AM | #58 |
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Strangerep, I skimmed the rest of the RHS article that you recommended. The interesting stuff was on the pages I had already read, so I didn't study the details of his specific example. One thing in particular that I had failed to understand before I read his paper is that the RHS definition of a ket is as an anti-linear functional on the nuclear space. (Is that the correct term for [itex]\Omega[/itex]?)
I liked his motivation for the definition of [itex]\Omega[/itex]. Short version: If we define a position operator [itex]Q:D(Q)\rightarrow H[/itex] by Qf(x)=xf(x) for all x, then its domain can't be all of H, because Qf is only square integrable if [tex]\int|xf(x)|^2\ dx < \infty[/tex] So the idea is to find a subspace of H on which the entire algebra of operators generated by Q,P and H (including operators of the form [itex]Q^iP^jH^k[/itex] where i,j,k are arbitrary positive integers) is well-defined. One thing that still seems weird to me is that people keep claiming that you need the RHS approach specifically to motivate bra-ket notation. I mean, all the problems that the RHS stuff is supposed to solve are there even if you don't use bra-ket notation. The first QM book I studied didn't use bra-ket notation, and it still pretended that Q and P had eigenvectors. It just ignored the fact that plane waves aren't square integrable and that delta functions aren't even functions. If you ignore those problems, the Riesz representation theorem is all you need to justify the notation. We can define a ket to be a member of H, and a bra to be a member of H*. The bra written as [itex]\langle f|[/itex] is the linear functional [itex]|g\rangle\mapsto(|f\rangle,|g\rangle)[/itex]. |
| Apr17-09, 08:08 PM | #59 |
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quant-ph/0502053, the author denotes it as [itex]\Phi[/itex] instead. and/or the full Lie group (not just the basic Lie algebra). position and momentum...". I.e., to be able to write (eg) [tex] 1 ~=~ \int\!\! dx ~ |x\rangle\langle x| [/tex] and have it actually mean something. So we don't really see the problems until unbounded operators are in play. P.S., I finally got hold of the books by Gelfand and Vilenkin: "Generalized Functions vol 4 -- Applications of Harmonic Analysis." Also vol 5. After some cursory reading it looks better than Maurin's book. (Possibly because the G-V book was originally Russian and then translated by a technically competent person. I.e., more people have been over it with a fine tooth comb.) P.P.S., Looks like you started are really good thread. Several days later, I'm still trying to relate the stuff DarMM said with what I already know about QFT. :-) |
| Apr23-09, 05:05 AM | #60 |
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Yes, this has been a good discussion. I have learned a lot from it.
![]() I'm still confused though, and I'd like to go back to the simplest possible QM theory for a while. (See the thread title). How can we state its axioms in a way that makes sense? They are usually stated in a way that ignores all the complications. Something like this: 1. The possible states of a physical system are represented by the unit rays of a separable Hilbert space over the complex numbers, on which there exists a self-adjoint operator H called the Hamiltonian. 2. The time evolution of an isolated system which is initially in state F is given by f(t)=exp(-iHt)f, where f is any vector in the ray F. 3. Measurable quantities are represented by self-adjoint operators. Self-adjoint operators are therefore called "observables". If a system is in state F when a measurement of an observable B is performed, the state of the system will change to state |b> (an eigenvector of B with eigenvalue b) with probability |<f|b>|2, where f is any vector in F. The result of a measurement of B that leaves the system in state |b> is b. This is actually a less sloppy formulation than the ones that were shown to me when I first studied QM, but there are many flaws here. These are some of my thoughts: * If we're dealing with the QM of one spin-0 particle, we can be more specific in axiom 1 and say that the Hilbert space is L2(R3) rather than just some Hilbert space. On the other hand, since all separable infinite-dimensional Hilbert spaces are isomorphic to each other, it doesn't really matter. Maybe we should at least add the requirement that the Hilbert space is infinite-dimensional. * Instead of postulating the existence of the Hamiltonian directly, we should be postulating that we're dealing with an irreducible representation of the covering group of the Galilei group. Actually, now that I think about it, once we start talking about representations, the axioms of non-relativistic QM of one spin-0 particle aren't significantly more complicated than the the axioms of special relativistic QM of one particle with arbitrary spin, so we might as well go for a slightly more general set of axioms (but stick with one-particle theories for now). * Axiom 2 can be dropped from the list, since it's implicit in the definition of the Hamiltonian as the generator of translations in time. That doesn't mean that we delete axiom 2. We just reinterpret it as the definition of an "isolated system". * Axiom 3 is still giving me a headache. It ignores several important issues, including: a) An observable can have several eigenvectors with the same eigenvalues, b) Position and momentum aren't even observables if we define them as self-adjoint operators on the Hilbert space, c) If we generalize the definition of observables to densely defined operators, some observables don't have eigenvectors, d) A generalized observable may have a continuous spectrum, a discrete spectrum, or a combination of both. * The first of those issues seems easy enough to deal with. Axiom 3 above is equivalent to saying that a density operator ρ changes to ∑b Pb ρ Pb when we measure B. (Sorry, LaTeX doesn't work). Here Pb=|b><b|, but if we instead define Pb to be the projection operator onto the eigenspace of B corresponding to eigenvalue b, then (I think) the the same rule holds even when the spectrum of B is degenerate. * The C*-algebra approach seems unnecessarily radical for the one-particle theories. You (Strangerep) suggested that we need this approach in those cases where we can't take all self-adjoint operators to be observables, and Mackey's book seems to be saying that this happens if and only if the theory includes a superselection rule (and one-particle theories don't). Hm, I guess that means that we should be using this approach when we get to SR QM of N non-interacting particles of arbitrary types. * There probably is no real need for the RHS approach either, but I think I might prefer to use it anyway, mostly because it clearly states which subspace represent the physical states. But I'm not sure yet if using a RHS will make the axioms less awkward, or more awkward. I'm going to post an improved version of the axioms, but I'll do that later (probably tomorrow). I still have to think some more about some of the details. If someone wants to suggest a better way to express axiom 3 in the meantime, feel free to do so. It's the only one that I'm still having problems with.
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| Apr23-09, 06:04 AM | #61 |
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Hm, I might as well post what I have right now, even though I still haven't solved all the problems. It should make it easier for others to suggest improvements.
1. The possible states of a physical system are represented by the unit rays of an infinite-dimensional separable Hilbert space H over the complex numbers. 2. Let O and O' be two inertial observers, and let S and S' be the inertial frames naturally associated with their motion. Let g be the Galilei transformation that represents a coordinate change from S to S'. If O describes an isolated system as being in state F, then O' must describe the system as being in the state that contains the vector f'=U(g)f, where f is any vector in F and U:G→GL(H) is an irreducible unitary representation of the covering group of the Galilei group. 3. The physical states are represented by the unit rays of the nuclear space N generated by the U(g) operators (i.e. the space N that's invariant under any product of a finite number of U(g) operators). Measurable quantities are represented by self-adjoint operators on N. These operators are therefore called "observables". If a system is in state F and a measurement of an observable B is performed, the state of the system will change according to ρ → ∑b Pb ρ Pb Axiom 2 is a bit awkward, but at least it defines momentum and spin as well, in addition to the Hamiltionian. Maybe position too, but I still don't quite get that part. I also realize now that I don't quite understand the significance of using the covering group instead of the Galilei group itself. I said that g is a Gallilei transformation, so what do we make of the expression U(g)? I mean, there are two members of G corresponding to each g, so which one of them do we use? It probably doesn't matter, but something should be said about this in the axiom. Axiom 3 still isn't able to deal with continuous spectra, so it needs to be changed. |
| Apr23-09, 10:33 PM | #62 |
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in your case Galilei. But when one tries to add a position operator, so that one has a "Heisenberg-Galilei" group, one finds that the position operator has to be a multiple of the Galilean boost operator. (See Ballentine pp66-84). (The relativistic case is more problematic, of course.) But let's assume you start with the Heisenberg group, and require a unitary irreducible representation thereof. A short proof then shows that a finite-dimensional Hilbert space can't work, so you're forced to inf-dim. That pretty much pushes you to L^2(R^3) (assuming you want 3 configuration degrees of freedom), or something that generalizes it. So I don't think you need to postulate a specific Hilbert space. Simply choosing a dynamical group and requiring unitary irreducible representation(s) thereof is enough. Since some of the operators are unbounded, that forces us to rigged Hilbert space (at least). I.e., we want a rigged Hilbert space that carries a faithful irrep of a chosen dynamical group. Then, maths alone (spectral theorem) tells us that the space (and indeed arbitrary operators on the space) can be decomposed in terms of eigenspaces of a self-adjoint operator. Each such eigenspace corresponds (via the associated eigenvalue) to a possible measurement outcome. (This is why we chose self-adjoint operators: they have real eigenvalues. We could have used more general operators if complex eigenvalues were ok.) If we can find another (different) self-operator that commutes with the first, we can further decompose each eigenspace. And if we can find a *complete* set of commuting self-adjoint operators, we can decompose right down to eigenvectors. All this pretty much follows from having a (rigged) Hilbert space, hence need not be explicit in the axioms. So you don't really need axiom 3 in its current form (since the spectral theorem also decomposes any operator in terms of projection operators). You just need to say something about how states correspond to density operators (and particular measurements to projection operators). Ballentine yet? :-) But I've never much liked the way position tends to be grafted on as an afterthought. More generally, one needs to start from a symplectic formulation (i.e., symplectic group on phase space), since that brings in non-trivial dynamics, interactions, etc. But then one must use something like Weyl-Wigner-Groenewold-Moyal quantization to establish a satisfactory correspondence between phase space functions and quantum operators. People continue to research this. half-integral spin. |
| Apr24-09, 10:55 AM | #63 |
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Thank you for another good answer. You've been more helpful to me already than my advisor for my M.Sc. thesis ever was.
![]() If you meant that I should drop that stuff about coordinate systems, I don't think that's a good idea. The physical intepretation of the U(g) operators must be included in the axioms in one way or another, and it might as well be this way. Unfortunately I don't know those spectral theorems. I still have a lot of functional analysis to read. 2. Let O and O' be two inertial observers, and let S and S' be the inertial frames naturally associated with their motion. Let g be the Galilei transformation that represents a coordinate change from S to S'. If O describes an isolated system as being in state F, then O' must describe the system as being in the state represented by the ray F' that contains the vector f'=U(h)f, where f is any vector in F, U:G→GL(H) is an irreducible unitary representation of the covering group of the Galilei group, and h is either of the two members of G that the covering homomorphism takes to g. |
| Apr24-09, 09:26 PM | #64 |
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stuff near the end of your post). You're talking about the double-valuedness that arises from the presence of SO(3) inside Galilei, right? If so, then I don't think this is an issue if you're restricting to spin-0. But maybe it's better to have a mega-space containing all spins, and then restrict attention to spin-0. The sign ambiguity arising from 2\pi rotations is then handled more cleanly: one just finds all unitary irreducible representations of SO(3), then discovers superselection rules between states of integer and half-integer spin. (But maybe I've misunderstood what's bugging you?) projection operators. integral. The main content of the theorem is proving that a "projection-valued Lebesgue measure" exists, making the integral mathematically meaningful. For mixed spectra you have two terms, one with an integral plus one with a sum. About the rest of your post,... maybe we should wait until you have a copy of Ballentine in front of you. |
| Apr25-09, 12:03 AM | #65 |
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| Apr25-09, 07:34 PM | #66 |
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don't mix under the group action, so it's cleaner when talking about integer vs half-integer spins. It's also an excellent way to show how superselection rules can arise from one's original choice of group. is a distinct issue from the double-valuedness of half-integer spin reps. In a projective unitary rep, we can have U(g)U(h) = e^{ia} U(gh). At the Lie algebra level, this is the same as adding a multiple of the identity to the right hand side of all the commutation relations. However, in some cases it can be shown that these multiples must be 0 (using consistency arguments from the Jacobi identity, etc). In other cases, it can be shown that the phase has no physical effect, so the multiple can be chosen as 0. For Galilei, however, it turns out there's one case where it can't be removed in either of these ways. Comparison with classical mechanics then shows that this remaining central element should be interpreted as mass. For Lorentz/Poincare, it turns out that the phase can always be set harmlessly to 1. Look for a spectral theorem concerning (noncompact) bounded Hermitian-symmetric operators on an (ordinary) inf-dim Hilbert space. I'm halfway through writing a summary paper (originally intended for personal use only) which states and proves all the spectral theorems, in increasing order of difficulty. Now I'm thinking I should eventually post some version of it in the tutorial forum. I wonder if I'll ever finish it sufficiently. |
| Apr26-09, 02:45 AM | #67 |
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Now Wigner's theorem about symmetries says that given a simply connected symmetry group G (i.e. a group of functions that map the set of rays of the Hilbert space H bijectively onto itself), we can find a map U:G→GL(H) such that U(g) is either linear and unitary for all g in G or antilinear and antiunitary for all g in G, and U(g)U(h)=U(gh) for all g,h in G. As I understand it, when G=SO(3), there's no U:G→GL(H) with these properties, and it can be traced back to SO(3) not being simply connected. The best we can do is to find a set of operators that satisfy an identity that is sometimes written as U(g)U(h)=±U(gh), but even that is being really sloppy with the notation. The truth is more complicated: I'll use the notation h→g to represent a continuous curve from h to g. The best we can do when G=SO(3) is to find a set {U(h→g) in GL(H) | h,g in G} such that each U(h→g) is linear and unitary and U(h→gh)U(e→h)=(-1)f(e→h,h→gh,e→gh)U(e→gh) where f(e→h,h→gh,e→gh)=0 when the curve constructed by joining the three curves e→h, h→gh and the "reverse" of e→gh to each other can be continuously deformed to a point, and f(e→h,h→gh,e→gh)=0 otherwise. (What I mean by the "reverse" of a curve C:[0,1]→G, is the curve B:[0,1]→G defined by B(t)=C(1-t) ). My main concern here is that the notation "U(g)" is inappropriate when G=SO(3), because the domain of U isn't G. It's a set of curves in G. So the bottom line is that if we take the symmetry group to include SU(2), we have to impose superselection rules manually, and if we take it to include SO(3), we have to use a very awkward notation, or be intentionally sloppy with the notation. Both of these things are undesirable, but the first is easier to deal with, I think. I got this idea from Weinberg, who seems to have gotten it from Streater & Wightman, or maybe directly from Wigner. |
| Apr26-09, 04:37 AM | #68 |
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Projective Representations.) In fact, it's probably simpler if I just quote Weinberg (p83-84). The phase of any representation U(T) of a given group can be chosen so that \phi=0 [...] if two conditions are met: (a) The generators of the group in this representation can be redefined [...] so as to eliminate all central charges from the Lie algebra. (b) The group is simply connected [...] I was talking about the redefinition of generators (which can always be done in Poincare, but not in Galilei), whereas you were talking about simple-connectedness (which must be considered in both cases). |
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