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Suggestion Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?

by squidsoft
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squidsoft
#1
May16-09, 06:55 PM
P: 54
May I suggest improving the format of the math output in the forum.

Consider the following code:

[tex]
\mathop\textnormal{Res}\limits_{z=-n}\left\{\frac{\pi}{x^s\sin(\pi s)}\right\}=(-x)^n,\quad n=0,-1,-2,\cdots
[/tex]

The equal sign is not well displayed under the Res symbol and the "s" in sine is broken up. I've noticed other problems like this in general. I think PF would look more polished if the math output was nicer looking.
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phreak
#2
May17-09, 12:23 AM
P: 149
If I recall correctly, it used to be better. I'm not sure when or why the change occurred.
DrGreg
#3
Jun1-09, 02:46 PM
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I suspect the problem might be that the LaTeX renderer (which generates the equation images) may work on the assumption that the equations will be displayed on a white background. On a grey background, some of the pixels are too faint. Is it possible to tweak the LaTeX renderer to take account of the grey background?

chroot
#4
Jun2-09, 04:01 AM
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Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?

Hey all,

A year ago or so, something changed in the fonts included in the normal LaTeX distributions that come with most Linux distributions. Along with it were a number of other changes that broke PF's latex system. I rewrote some of it, but never really figured out the problem with the fonts.

I will look into it more. I don't actually think it has anything to do with anti-aliasing. The images are currently anti-aliased to white, and then white is dropped out as transparent. If the strokes look correct when anti-aliased to white, it seems that changing the surrounding white pixels to transparent would not affect them. It's worth a shot, though.

- Warren
DrGreg
#5
Jun2-09, 09:29 PM
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Quote Quote by chroot View Post
Hey all,

A year ago or so, something changed in the fonts included in the normal LaTeX distributions that come with most Linux distributions. Along with it were a number of other changes that broke PF's latex system. I rewrote some of it, but never really figured out the problem with the fonts.

I will look into it more. I don't actually think it has anything to do with anti-aliasing. The images are currently anti-aliased to white, and then white is dropped out as transparent. If the strokes look correct when anti-aliased to white, it seems that changing the surrounding white pixels to transparent would not affect them. It's worth a shot, though.

- Warren
For what it's worth, I took the PNG image in post #1, on its default white background, and decreased the brightness until its background matched this thread's grey background. I think the result (attached) is therefore what you'd get if anti-aliased to grey. Slightly more legible, I think, but still not great, and I guess that's down to a poor choice of font. Or something.
Attached Thumbnails
2201627-0 darkened.png  
Moonbear
#6
Jun4-09, 11:49 AM
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Can the font be made bold, either in a default setting or when typed by the user (I never use LaTex, so don't know the ins and outs of this)? It just looks like the font is a bit thin and loses something, so if there's a way to make it bold, that might be enough to improve readability.
DrGreg
#7
Jun4-09, 01:32 PM
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Quote Quote by Moonbear View Post
Can the font be made bold, either in a default setting or when typed by the user (I never use LaTex, so don't know the ins and outs of this)? It just looks like the font is a bit thin and loses something, so if there's a way to make it bold, that might be enough to improve readability.
That wouldn't be a solution as such, because some equations use both bold and plain font, e.g.
[tex]\mathbf{z} = a\mathbf{x} + b\mathbf{y}[/tex]
although personally I prefer
[tex]\textbf{z} = a\textbf{x} + b\textbf{y}[/tex]
However, if you have a greater choice of font weights than just "plain" and "bold", then some slightly heavier fonts might help.
chroot
#8
Jun4-09, 02:06 PM
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Okay, guys... I changed some of the antialiasing behavior in Ghostscript (I turned it down!), and I think the output looks a little better now. If you could, post some troublesome LaTeX here and see if it renders better now.

- Warren
chroot
#9
Jun4-09, 02:08 PM
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[tex]

\mathop\textnormal{Res}\limits_{z=-n}\left\{\frac{\pi}{x^s\sin(\pi s)}\right\}=(-x)^n,\quad n=0,-1,-2,\cdots

[/tex]
CRGreathouse
#10
Jun4-09, 02:19 PM
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[tex]\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)[/tex] has a very strong summation symbol.
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chroot
#11
Jun4-09, 02:22 PM
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This is how it looked with the old antialiasing options:

[tex]
\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)
[/tex]

- Warren
chroot
#12
Jun4-09, 02:22 PM
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And now the new:

[tex]
\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)
[/tex]

It's really strange that antialiasing options could even cause this in the first place.....

- Warren
chroot
#13
Jun4-09, 02:23 PM
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And with no anti-aliasing at all:

[tex]
\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)
[/tex]

- Warren
chroot
#14
Jun4-09, 02:26 PM
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Fooling around some more:

[tex]
\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)
[/tex]
chroot
#15
Jun4-09, 02:27 PM
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Hmmm...

[tex]
\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)
[/tex]
chroot
#16
Jun4-09, 02:29 PM
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Try try again:

[tex]
\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)
[/tex]
chroot
#17
Jun4-09, 02:30 PM
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[tex]

\mathop\textnormal{Res}\limits_{z=-n}\left\{\frac{\pi}{x^s\sin(\pi s)}\right\}=(-x)^n,\quad n=0,-1,-2,\cdots

[/tex]
chroot
#18
Jun4-09, 02:31 PM
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I'm not really sure I've found a solution. I'll have to keep hunting.

[tex]

\mathop\textnormal{Res}\limits_{z=-n}\left\{\frac{\pi}{x^s\sin(\pi s)}\right\}=(-x)^n,\quad n=0,-1,-2,\cdots

[/tex]

- Warren


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