Suggestion Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?

Hans de Vries

Old bugs and old vulnerabilities.... update to any of your choice:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/int...r/default.aspx
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/
http://www.opera.com/
http://www.google.com/chrome/

Regards, Hans

gmax137

DaleSpam - this is exactly what I saw and described above. My understanding is that the way PF works has been modified recently, with the upshot being that those who still use IE6 now see the LaTex as crap (actually, it is completely illegible), while others see an improvement. I took the advice offered above and installed the Firefox browser - now everything looks good for me. And the FF browser installation and use is painless. The only caveat I made during installation was to NOT select Firefox as my default browser, because I didn't want to mess anything else up (I have a lot of 'web based' applications on my work computer).

DrGreg

Unfortunately this IE6 problem is not going to go away. Anyone browsing from home has no problem, they can install any browser they like. But if you're using someone else's computer (e.g. your employer's), in many cases you are simply not allowed to install anything else. It doesn't matter how many arguments there are in favour of upgrading, if the IT department doesn't allow it, you're stuck.

robphy

Yes, this is quite true.
I posted a possible solution earlier... basically use
the disliked-but-more-compatible gif-with-transparency
rather than
the better-liked-but-less-compatible png-with-transparency.
(While IE6 may be disliked, there are just too many of them out there.)

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthr...17#post2238517

(By the way, one possible away around the employer is to use (say)
the portable version of Firefox ( http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable ) which can be installed on a USB drive. You can use that, on the assumption you can or are allowed to mount the USB drive. However, the most practical solution IMHO is to use gif.)

chroot

I'm going to try a few things to see if I can improve the look of the images under IE6. They will probably never look as good as they do in reasonably recent browsers, but I think I can at least make them gray instead of black.

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of IE6, and don't think I can find one. MS will not give you one anymore, and I don't think anyone's interested in keeping around copies of dead software that won't even run on modern operating systems...

I really want to emphasize that a very large part of the internet, sites which use Web 2.0 technologies, are or soon will be inaccessible to people running ancient, unsupported browsers. PF is least of your concerns. I personally find it very offensive that some of you are upset with me for not being compatible with a browser that I cannot even obtain anymore. I find it even more offensive that you think it's my responsibility to support you -- I'm a volunteer -- rather than your own responsibility to pressure your (paid) IT department or whatever to do their jobs and maintain your software.

- Warren

chroot

Alright, I did some work on the LaTeX system. Those of you unfortunate enough to be using IE6, please let me know how the images look now. I suspect they will have a white, non-transparent background -- maybe not the best possible solution, but readable.

I also did some work on the alignment of inline LaTeX, so please experiment with it and let me know what you think.

- Warren

DrGreg

It wasn't my intention to offend and I greatly appreciate the good work you put in to this site.

Despite what I've said, for me, being able to browse this site at work is a luxury I can survive without, as I do all my serious browsing and contributing from home. Nevertheless, I suspect the number of IE6s out there may be surprisingly large.

I'm at home now but I'll check out the LaTeX at work tomorrow. Thanks for your effort.

(In my experience, the function of a corporate IT department isn't to serve the employees but rather to prevent them doing what they'd like to do. In my case, the only USB keys permitted are specially crippled ones which only support a handful of document types (EXEs excluded). Sigh.)

tiny-tim

ooh, that looks perfect, Warren! …

(for magnetic moment [itex]\bold{\mu}[/itex]):

(for magnetic moment [itex]mu[/itex]):

(compare with same text in post #64 above)

hmm … let's try three over x squared now:

let's try [itex]\frac{3}{x^2}[/itex] now, and [itex]\frac{x^2}{3}[/itex] also …

yup!

DrGreg

Thanks for trying, but no, they are still on a black background (screenshot attached).

For what it's worth, I googled "ie6 png transparency" and the second hit was this which describes a workaround in CSS or JavaScript. The other hits all seem to describe something similar. I don't know if you can apply such patches to your bulletin board software, and I'm not expert to fully understand what is being said. I appreciate the extreme difficulty of not being able to see the effect of any change you make!

Also, for what it's worth, apparently IE6 was, during May 2009, still the third most used browser for accessing search engines, according to this

1. IE7 41%
2. FF3 20%
3. IE6 17%
4. IE8 7%
5. Safari 3.2 5%

Attached Thumbnails

 

Redbelly98

I think we can expect the IE6 number to drop as time goes on (and for IE8 to rise). In fact, there is no way for the # of IE6 users to rise as it is impossible for new computers to get IE6. Food for thought: the same website lists IE5 at just 0.07%.

Is it reasonable for Warren to bang his head against the wall over this when, a year from now, IE6 may be nowhere near the Top 5 Browsers list?

Count Iblis

There are many people in third world countries who are running Windows 95 or Windows 98 on old computers. They will be running the highest version of IE that their machine is capable of running, and that will be IE6. So, IE6 will stabilize at some level close to what it is now.

Hans de Vries

Windows 95 and Windows 98 together would be well below 1%
Even Windows 2000 is dropping below 1% now.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-m....aspx?qprid=11


Regards, Hans

Greg Bernhardt

12% of PF users are viewing via IE6

Less than 1% are using Windows 98 or 95.

gmax137

Warren if I am one that offended you, please accept a sincere apology. I certainly am not 'upset' with you or anything you do - and I don't feel you or any of the others involved in making PF work owe me anything. You are doing a tremendous service to me and all the other users at the forum.

Thanks
Gregg

CRGreathouse

I would be bothered by it more were it not for the fact that browsers that can display PNGs correctly are freely available (Firefox, Opera, etc.).

g_edgar

Is there a philosophical objection to a white background?

Redbelly98

Yes. Since a white background doesn't match the surrounding background, every LaTex image gets this white rectangle surrounding it. It looks very unprofessional -- we had this problem for a while last fall.

For an example, check out http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=267150