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Suggestion Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?

by squidsoft
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DrGreg
#109
Jun23-09, 07:17 PM
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Quote Quote by chroot View Post
I personally find it very offensive that some of you are upset with me for not being compatible with a browser that I cannot even obtain anymore. I find it even more offensive that you think it's my responsibility to support you -- I'm a volunteer -- rather than your own responsibility to pressure your (paid) IT department or whatever to do their jobs and maintain your software.
It wasn't my intention to offend and I greatly appreciate the good work you put in to this site.

Despite what I've said, for me, being able to browse this site at work is a luxury I can survive without, as I do all my serious browsing and contributing from home. Nevertheless, I suspect the number of IE6s out there may be surprisingly large.

I'm at home now but I'll check out the LaTeX at work tomorrow. Thanks for your effort.

(In my experience, the function of a corporate IT department isn't to serve the employees but rather to prevent them doing what they'd like to do. In my case, the only USB keys permitted are specially crippled ones which only support a handful of document types (EXEs excluded). Sigh.)
tiny-tim
#110
Jun24-09, 02:41 AM
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ooh, that looks perfect, Warren!
(for magnetic moment [itex]\bold{\mu}[/itex]):

(for magnetic moment [itex]mu[/itex]):
(compare with same text in post #64 above)

hmm let's try three over x squared now:
let's try [itex]\frac{3}{x^2}[/itex] now, and [itex]\frac{x^2}{3}[/itex] also
yup!
DrGreg
#111
Jun24-09, 02:55 PM
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Quote Quote by chroot View Post
Alright, I did some work on the LaTeX system. Those of you unfortunate enough to be using IE6, please let me know how the images look now. I suspect they will have a white, non-transparent background -- maybe not the best possible solution, but readable.
Thanks for trying, but no, they are still on a black background (screenshot attached).

For what it's worth, I googled "ie6 png transparency" and the second hit was this which describes a workaround in CSS or JavaScript. The other hits all seem to describe something similar. I don't know if you can apply such patches to your bulletin board software, and I'm not expert to fully understand what is being said. I appreciate the extreme difficulty of not being able to see the effect of any change you make!

Also, for what it's worth, apparently IE6 was, during May 2009, still the third most used browser for accessing search engines, according to this
  1. IE7 41%
  2. FF3 20%
  3. IE6 17%
  4. IE8 7%
  5. Safari 3.2 5%
Attached Thumbnails
LaTeX on IE6 sample.png  
Redbelly98
#112
Jun24-09, 06:20 PM
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Quote Quote by DrGreg View Post
Also, for what it's worth, apparently IE6 was, during May 2009, still the third most used browser for accessing search engines, according to this
  1. IE7 41%
  2. FF3 20%
  3. IE6 17%
  4. IE8 7%
  5. Safari 3.2 5%
I think we can expect the IE6 number to drop as time goes on (and for IE8 to rise). In fact, there is no way for the # of IE6 users to rise as it is impossible for new computers to get IE6. Food for thought: the same website lists IE5 at just 0.07%.

Is it reasonable for Warren to bang his head against the wall over this when, a year from now, IE6 may be nowhere near the Top 5 Browsers list?
Count Iblis
#113
Jun24-09, 09:23 PM
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Quote Quote by Redbelly98 View Post
I think we can expect the IE6 number to drop as time goes on (and for IE8 to rise). In fact, there is no way for the # of IE6 users to rise as it is impossible for new computers to get IE6. Food for thought: the same website lists IE5 at just 0.07%.

Is it reasonable for Warren to bang his head against the wall over this when, a year from now, IE6 may be nowhere near the Top 5 Browsers list?


There are many people in third world countries who are running Windows 95 or Windows 98 on old computers. They will be running the highest version of IE that their machine is capable of running, and that will be IE6. So, IE6 will stabilize at some level close to what it is now.
Hans de Vries
#114
Jun24-09, 09:46 PM
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Quote Quote by Count Iblis View Post
There are many people in third world countries who are running Windows 95 or Windows 98 on old computers. They will be running the highest version of IE that their machine is capable of running, and that will be IE6. So, IE6 will stabilize at some level close to what it is now.
Windows 95 and Windows 98 together would be well below 1%
Even Windows 2000 is dropping below 1% now.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-m....aspx?qprid=11


Regards, Hans
Greg Bernhardt
#115
Jun25-09, 01:43 AM
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12% of PF users are viewing via IE6

Less than 1% are using Windows 98 or 95.
gmax137
#116
Jun25-09, 07:03 AM
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Quote Quote by chroot View Post
...I personally find it very offensive that some of you are upset with me for not being compatible with a browser that I cannot even obtain anymore. I find it even more offensive that you think it's my responsibility to support you -- I'm a volunteer -- rather than your own responsibility to pressure your (paid) IT department or whatever to do their jobs and maintain your software.

- Warren
Warren if I am one that offended you, please accept a sincere apology. I certainly am not 'upset' with you or anything you do - and I don't feel you or any of the others involved in making PF work owe me anything. You are doing a tremendous service to me and all the other users at the forum.

Thanks
Gregg
CRGreathouse
#117
Jun25-09, 07:11 AM
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I would be bothered by it more were it not for the fact that browsers that can display PNGs correctly are freely available (Firefox, Opera, etc.).
g_edgar
#118
Jun25-09, 12:56 PM
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Quote Quote by dx View Post
It's very light. I can hardly see this: [itex] e^{\ln x} = 7 [/itex].
Is there a philosophical objection to a white background?
Redbelly98
#119
Jun25-09, 01:19 PM
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Quote Quote by g_edgar View Post
Is there a philosophical objection to a white background?
Yes. Since a white background doesn't match the surrounding background, every LaTex image gets this white rectangle surrounding it. It looks very unprofessional -- we had this problem for a while last fall.

For an example, check out http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=267150
CRGreathouse
#120
Jun25-09, 04:07 PM
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What about setting the background to #E3E3E3 with transparency 254 (or opaqueness 1; I don't remember the right terminology)? Or is the mere presence of an alpha layer enough to make IE6 display the color as gray?
g_edgar
#121
Jun26-09, 07:50 AM
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Quote Quote by Redbelly98 View Post
Yes. Since a white background doesn't match the surrounding background, every LaTex image gets this white rectangle surrounding it. It looks very unprofessional -- we had this problem for a while last fall.
No, I mean the entire message area with white background. Of course you don't want the formula background different than the rest of the message background.

If your newspaper published on gray-colored paper like this, it would be less legible, I think. Paper that is brighter white is more expensive, because (among other reasons) the resulting printouts are more legible. But on a web page, we can use any color we want for the same price!
Redbelly98
#122
Jun26-09, 08:24 AM
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Quote Quote by g_edgar View Post
No, I mean the entire message area with white background. Of course you don't want the formula background different than the rest of the message background.

If your newspaper published on gray-colored paper like this, it would be less legible, I think. Paper that is brighter white is more expensive, because (among other reasons) the resulting printouts are more legible. But on a web page, we can use any color we want for the same price!
Okay, now I understand what you meant. Sorry.

Greg would be a better person to answer the question about having a white background at PF.
DrGreg
#123
Jun28-09, 03:01 PM
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It looks like ITEX might be shaving the top row of pixels off the image

ITEX: [itex]\sqrt{2}[/itex] but [itex]\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}[/itex]

TEX: [tex]\sqrt{2}[/tex] but [tex]\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}[/tex]

Or does ITEX deliberately treat square roots that way?
jackiefrost
#124
Jul15-09, 06:32 PM
P: 137
I know the black background problem with IE6 is an old, stale, issue but... my place of employment won't upgrade and Firefox doesn't work correctly on the network (ours) BUT - I found to my delight that Google Chrome doesn't get me in trouble with the IT ppl and displays Latex beautifully. Hallelu...I forget how to spell it :)

So - the moral to the story is - don't forget to try installing Chrome if you're stuck with IE6.

(Don't ask why we're messing with PF at work ;-)
jf
n!kofeyn
#125
Jul18-09, 10:00 PM
P: 538
I've noticed that the Art of Problem Solving forum's LaTeX is much easier to read and seems to automatically output inline with text. Is there any way you could look into how they render their LaTeX?
robphy
#126
Jul19-09, 01:03 AM
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Quote Quote by n!kofeyn View Post
I've noticed that the Art of Problem Solving forum's LaTeX is much easier to read and seems to automatically output inline with text. Is there any way you could look into how they render their LaTeX?
They output rendered equations as .gif.


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