The Mysterious Nature of Clouds: Density, Temperature, and Structure

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the characteristics of different types of clouds, specifically cirrus, stratus, and cumulus clouds, focusing on their shapes, densities, and the factors influencing their formation and structure. Participants consider atmospheric density, temperature, and the composition of cloud particles as potential explanations for these phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why cirrus clouds are thin and ripple-shaped compared to the puffy and opaque nature of lower clouds, suggesting a link to atmospheric density and temperature.
  • Another participant proposes that the composition of higher clouds as ice and lower clouds as water droplets is a significant factor in their differences.
  • A later reply discusses the relationship between particle density and obscurity, suggesting that lower altitude clouds may appear more opaque due to diffraction from smaller water droplet diameters, while higher clouds may be affected by absorption.
  • Participants express curiosity about the irregular shapes of clouds and why they do not disperse into a homogeneous mass, with one noting that variations in air density can lead to condensation and contribute to cloud formation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views regarding the factors influencing cloud characteristics, and the discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached on the explanations provided.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of cloud formation, including the influence of atmospheric density and temperature, but do not fully resolve the underlying assumptions or mechanisms involved.

Tyro
Messages
97
Reaction score
0
What causes the high up cirrus clouds to be ripple shaped and thin, while the lower stratus or cumulo nimbus clouds to be puffy and opaque?

Presumably, it must have something to do with atmospheric density and temperature...although how exactly seems uncertain.

Also, what causes clouds to congregate into visible structures? Why don't they just dissipate/diffuse like a gas or smoke in another? What holds clouds together?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I think a major factor in this is that the higher clouds are composed of ice, while the lower down clouds, being warmer, are made up of water droplets...
 
Originally posted by FZ+
I think a major factor in this is that the higher clouds are composed of ice, while the lower down clouds, being warmer, are made up of water droplets...

So is it correct to say that since the density of ice is the lower than the density of water, the greater obscurity of low altitude clouds is a result of diffraction (due to smaller particle diameters) while at high altitudes it is the result of absorption?

How do you explain the irregular shapes of clouds? Why doesn't the atmosphere just look like muddy water (i.e. the clouds just disperse into a homogeneous, featureless, mass)?
 
High cirrus clouds are lower density as stated, but remember, they aren't a solid block of ice. They are MUCH lower density than clouds at low altitude for two reasons: One, the density of the atmosphere itself is many times (10x or so, probably) thinner at the altitude of cirrus clouds. And two, at lower temperature, the air holds far less water than at high temperature.
 
Originally posted by Tyro


How do you explain the irregular shapes of clouds? Why doesn't the atmosphere just look like muddy water (i.e. the clouds just disperse into a homogeneous, featureless, mass)?

One thing I've noticed when travellingn in a small aircraft is that the atmosphere itself is not smooth. Pockets of verying air-density can actually be felt as one flies through them. This "bumpy air" is especially noticable at the edges of clouds. I don't know what other factors are involved, but this change in density itself would be enough to cause condensation to occurr.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
7K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
7K