moon landing

Phobos

One thing to be said for manned missions...it inspires non-scientists' interest in science & the space program (y'know, the folks who are footing much of the bill). In the immortal words of Lockheed Martin (at least, by their new ad execs)..."To be human is to explore."

Of course, I realize/agree that much more can be accomplished with robotic missions at this stage in our space technology. But a little glory & pride can be a great motivator too.

bozo the clown

you do not think the spacestation is meaningful science ??

russ_watters

I pretty much share Integral's (and Dr. Park's) opinion, and you missed the point completely (as already mentioned). Integral's capitalization of the word "MANNED" was already pointed out, but lemme post for you a quote from the link (which you clearly didn't read): Is that any clearer?

Now, this begs the question: where should the funding go? How about this: The Origins Program. Its one of the programs on the block due to Bush's ill-advised Mars initiative. IMO, its the single most important program NASA has - and it doesn't involve any manned missions (except maybe to launch the components).

edit: Sigh. Are you reading anything we're posting/linking here? Yes, that is our position. If you disagree, there are a good half-dozen points made (which you have thus far ignored) that you can argue against.

russ_watters

And that is, of course, the catch-22 to all of this. The only way around it (maybe) is through some pretty spectacular robot missions. The Mars rovers were good (what did they get, a billion hits on the website?), but how 'bout a Europa rover?

bozo the clown

What I think is a waste of money are robotic missions costing billions of dollars piddling around the solar system probing planets that have absolutely no use to us. I mean who cares about the size of the debris in Saturn's rings.
If anything one should at least concentrate the money regarding Europa for a robotic mission.

According to NASA we will be going back to the moon using new craft that will be a lot more econmical. I was not born in 69 to see moon landing but I shall see the next one.
Bring it on.

Entropy

I do. We hardly understand how Saturn's rings and its 30+ moons are able to keep there orbit around the planet. If we can figure out how all these object have come to a stable orbit in this gravitational mess we could improve satellites, spacecraft landings/launchings, and learn about the nature of gravity itself.

Look NASA has good reasons for doing certain missions. Its not just "hey lets send a giant camera into space and take some pretty pictures!" Read up on some of NASA's current missions you have questions about and I think you'll find a scientific backing for it.

bozo the clown

urm i think our current understanding of gravity out weighs working out the orbitals of Saturn, cassini is simply passing Saturn cause it may as well as part of its journey its discoveries regrading Saturn are just to satisfy the planet enthusiasts.

russ_watters

So what do you think we should do and what benefit would it have? If we were to go back to the moon, the craft could be more economical. But so what? Why go back to the moon?

Entropy

No your wrong. Maybe you should research it a little. We do not know how the rings of Saturn or some of it's moons mantain there orbits.

Integral

According to Dr. Park, everything that can be learning on the SSI has been learned. We have 20 yrs of data on the response of the human body to low gravity environments. Do you really think that there is any benifit to be had from 30yrs of data?

It is a shame that you can not read and respond objectivly to the infromation you are beening provided. So you think that I am simply anti space exploration..Period. This is simpy not the case. I have developed my views based on years of reading and my education. In my youth, I lived every minute of the Mercury, Gemni and Apollo programs, I watched and followed the development and early flights of the Shuttle (BTW, my older brother was part of the devleopment of some parts of Shuttle water recirculation systems). So I have followed manned space flights from the start, and even had some dreams of becoming a Mission specilist aboard the shuttle. My opinons are not blindly held nor have I always held them, they have been formed based on SCIENTIFIC fact. It is not an easy thing to drop deeply loved opinions, even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

bozo the clown

I have read the links and all these posts and I completely understand your point of views and on some parts I agree i.e when you mention inexhaustable energy supplies.
But I say to you, have you not spent money yourself on something in the pursuit of interest and wonder when you could have spent that money on something more productive.
By returning to the Moon then Mars we will procudce new technology that may benefit us in the long run it will be for me a fascinating spectacle, like I said earlier we can use money from the 'policeman of the world fund' to finance it.
entropy as for the garbage floating around Saturn it works on the same principals as garbage floating around any other planet does it not ?

Entropy

Alright bozo, it seems to are completely inept to the point where you can do your own research. You don't even need to leave your computer. Go to google and type in "saturn's rings." BAM! Theres you're material.

http://ringmaster.arc.nasa.gov/saturn/saturn.html

http://www.solarviews.com/eng/saturnrings.htm

You see things aren't always so simple. When you have 30+ moons and those rings interacting the gravitational fields become complex and requires observation. See we don't know how Saturn rings mantain there orbits. You see just do a LITTLE research before you just assume things and go around acting like you know it all.

Chronos

Be nice. The question was innocent. Bozo is just trying to understand and participate in the conversation. My turn. We have limited [very limited] resources to spend to test theories and acquire new knowledge. People are very expensive cargo in space. They are fat and need life support. Machines do not. People do not cry when machines cease to function... unless you still have payments to make

bozo the clown

hmm interesting bout those rings entropy maybe its not gravity, one explanation could be likened to a hula hoop dancer the dancer being saturn and the rings being the hoop.

selfAdjoint

The hula hoop motion is determined by gravity and anglular motion. The angular motion is induced by couples induced by coordinated hip motions. Saturn has gravity and angular motion, but no hips.

Phobos

To all - - Let's keep this discussion a little more civil, please.

The gets into a debate of the practicality of pure research. Some people will argue that scientific research should only be conducted if there is a clear economic/health/etc. benefit. Others will argue that pure research is valuable in that it increases the overall body of scientific knowledge (a powerful, enabling thing) plus it can produce unexpected, practical benefits (e.g., new or spinoff technologies).

Understanding the other planets does have a use for us...it helps us understand our own planet. (I recommend starting a new topic if you want to pursue this point.)

Certainly space enthusiasts, like the people in this forum, love this kind of stuff.

I think we all agree that a Europa mission is in order!

I think we all agree that a space program is good. The points being presented to you are simply that a bigger space program is possible when it is robotic (more science can be done). Given the huge expenses of a space program, it becomes necessary to closely examine the rationale for making something a manned or robotic mission.

I, for one, would love to see the first manned mission to Mars occur in my lifetime. The very idea is exciting. But I'm not really willing to sacrifice all the other great scientific programs to do so. Anyone want to triple NASA's funding?

Entropy

Hell I say increase it 10 fold! Scrap some of are nuclear subs. Like we need to have a boat able to nuking half the world.