Can Macroscopic Objects Exist in Eigenstates?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of wavefunctions for macroscopic objects, particularly black holes, and the implications of quantum mechanics on their states. Participants explore concepts related to eigenstates, superposition, and the challenges of defining wavefunctions for larger-scale entities compared to microscopic ones.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that everything, including black holes, has a wavefunction, but the challenge lies in not knowing it.
  • There is a suggestion that quantum cosmologists consider a wavefunction for the entire universe, which may imply that wavefunctions do not collapse.
  • Participants discuss the notion of superposition, with one proposing that observing a gauge results in a leap into a superposition of eigenstates.
  • Questions are raised about the difficulties in developing a wavefunction for black holes compared to microscopic objects, prompting inquiries into the necessary conditions for such a wavefunction.
  • Concerns are expressed regarding the definition of eigenstates and whether macroscopic objects can exist in such states, with requests for clarification on these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether macroscopic objects can exist in eigenstates, and multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the nature of wavefunctions for black holes and the implications of quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved definitions of eigenstates, the complexity of wavefunctions for macroscopic objects, and the dependence on interpretations of quantum mechanics.

jby
Does a black hole have a wavefunction?
 
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Sure. Everything "has" a wavefunction. The problem is we don't know it.
 
Originally posted by jby
Does a black hole have a wavefunction?

Some Quantum Cosmologists work on [the idea] of a wave function for the entire universe. By this it is also suggested that we don't collapse wave functions: When I look at a gauge, I leap into a superposition of eigenstates.
 


Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
When I look at a gauge, I leap into a superposition of eigenstates.
Or... you just leap into one while your other "you" leaps
into another...
 


Originally posted by drag
Or... you just leap into one while your other "you" leaps
into another...

Which one of me were all of you speaking to?
 


Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
When I look at a gauge, I leap into a superposition of eigenstates.

What do you mean?
 
Originally posted by heumpje
Sure. Everything "has" a wavefunction. The problem is we don't know it.

Why not? What makes it difficult compared to microscopic objects?
If we were to start off a search to develop the wavefunction for a black hole, what are the conditions must the wavefunction that we will get fulfill?
 


Originally posted by jby
What do you mean?

I don't know.

Although I got this directly from Dr. Steve Carlip -
http://www.physics.ucdavis.edu/Text/Carlip.html

- I am not sure if this information is on his web site. Quantum Cosmology sites should have some discussions.

Perhaps someone else can help here?
 
This pointless post was brought to you by the three stooges smileys
 
  • #10
Originally posted by jby
Why not? What makes it difficult compared to microscopic objects?
If we were to start off a search to develop the wavefunction for a black hole, what are the conditions must the wavefunction that we will get fulfill?

Normally (for microscopic objects that is) we look for eigenstates of the Hamiltonian but a macroscopic object is not in an eigenstate.
 
  • #11
Originally posted by heumpje
Normally (for microscopic objects that is) we look for eigenstates of the Hamiltonian but a macroscopic object is not in an eigenstate.

In this quantum case, how do you exactly explain eigenstate? And why doesn't a macroscopic object be in an eigenstate? Can there be any chances that the object be in an eigenstate?
 

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