Energy to matter converter

chroot

The energy stored in bonds contributes to the mass of the bound object. In other words, two oxygen atoms have slightly more mass when separated than when bound together, for example.

For chemical bonds, the mass changes are quite small and are negligible. For nuclear reactions (both fission and fusion), the mass changes are substantial. Total mass-energy is conserved, but mass by itself is not.

- Warren

alpha_wolf

I was unaware that ZPE is not mainstream physics... If the problem is in the suggestion of tapping into it in the future, would you approve if the words "if possible" were added (they were implied)?

EDIT: The reason I ask is that I don't quite understand where your objection comes from. I suspect it comes from you missunderstanding my claims in that post. I would like to clarify, but unforetunately I cannot do so until you clarify your objection.

Nenad

so a bond or an intermolecular interaction has mass. Doesn't that mean that something like gravity has mass?

alpha_wolf

This is just an educated guess, but I think that for an object where gravity plays a significant role in holding its parts together, the answer would be "yes". More precicely, the gravitational binding energy would contribute to the rest mass of the object - if you split it into several parts, you should find that the sum of their rest masses is slightly less than the rest mass of the object. Again, this is just an educated guess.

Mk

Its not been proven very well

Mk

I wonder... hey isn't that against the 1st law of Thermodynamics?

Nenad

ya, cause I was thinking, like Chroot said, the bonding energy has mass. So the bonding energy of let say water has mass? The elecromagnetic force has mass? Polarity has mass? I has no idea that a force like electomagnetism has mass.

HallsofIvy

No one said that force has mass: energy has mass and force is not energy.

Nenad

what is a bond? It is a force holding two atoms together, like an oxygen atom and a Hydrogen atom. This force, according to chroot has mass.

chroot

A bond is not a force.

- Warren

what_are_electrons

With this picture, I can see that an electron with its 0.000511 GeV/c(2) mass should NOT contain any positive mesonic pions which have unit mass of 0.140 GeV/c(2). Does this mean that pions are mainly in the nucleus and not present in any electron-electron interactions?

Gluons, as I read, have effectively zero mass (0 GeV/c(2)). So where is the mass in the protons and the neutrons if not in the Gluons or the quarks?

Hypothetically:
If the mass of an atom is mainly in the binding energy, and if binding energy were defined as the interaction between a set of electromagnetic force fields, then is it better to define mass in terms of electromagnetic force fields?
...

selfAdjoint

The mass of the nucleons is in the potential energy of the binding; mass is a form of potential energy in relativity, so this is OK, and as I said (reread my post), this passes the tests for a mass, in regards to acceleration and gravitation. That's where it comes from, and it does all hang together.

About electromagnetic forces, the gluons do not carry EM, they carry the color force (nowadays aka the strong force). This force, unlike EM has three charge/anticharge pairs, and they interact according to the representations of SU(3), whereas EM interacts according to the group U(1). This stuff was discovered in the 1960s and 1970s and it checks out; QCD and the standard model have passed beaucoup tests, and the cottage industry of finding "physics beyond the standard model" experimentally has come up empty. The CP violation you hear so much about does not break the SM; it's more likely to falsify the supersymmetry extensions that have been proposed.

HallsofIvy

In fission, uranium breaks into Krypton and Barium. The total atomic weights of Krypton and Barium are slightly less that the atomic weight of uranium (even taking into account the two additional neutrons that are produced. That difference in mass is what is converted to energy.

Nenad

if a bond is not a force, what is it?

chroot

A 'bond' is a condition in which two particles are energetically bound together. That's about all you can say.

The reason it's not a force is simple: forces accelerate things. If you have two stationary hydrogen atoms bound together, neither is moving -- so the net force on both must be zero.

- Warren

marlon

keep in mind though that when the net force is zero, this does not mean there is no force. The mass of an atomic nucleus is determened by the sum of the mass of the constituent particles plus the mass equivalent to the binding energy between them...

A bound is just a state of potential energy associated with it. This energy is the binding energy. In GTR there even is no distinction between those kinds of energy...
regards
marlon

alpha_wolf

I would like to expand on this slightly. A bond is a state of stable equilibrium. For example, if you take a molecule of two atoms, and move those atoms a little closer or a little further away, a force would appear which would strive to return the molecule to its original state. The state of equilibrium involves a form of internal energy we call "binding energy" or "bond energy", and this energy contributes to the mass of the system.