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How to Deal With Cheaters and the Ethics of Infidelity...

by TheStatutoryApe
Tags: cheaters, deal, ethics, infidelity
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magnusrobot12
#37
Mar5-10, 10:59 PM
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i did not read the original post but only the title. Basically, if someone cheats they will cheat always. i am not saying if you are 16 and you cheated on your GF once because your balls are blue and you dont know what the hell is going on, then maybe you will not be a cheater for life. cheater for life are people who habitually cheat or have a mistress. stay away from them.
Char. Limit
#38
Mar5-10, 11:29 PM
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And this just proves that you should read more than the title. Even the first post would have helped greatly.

After all, what we were discussing is close to what you are discussing only in subject matter.

And women cheat too. It's just that many people believe that if the woman cheats, it's the man's fault, and if the man cheats, it's the man's fault.
TheStatutoryApe
#39
Mar6-10, 12:04 AM
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Quote Quote by Char. Limit View Post
And women cheat too. It's just that many people believe that if the woman cheats, it's the man's fault, and if the man cheats, it's the man's fault.
I think that this goes both ways. Males think poorly of females who cheat but many highfive the guy who screwed around with that hot chick from the bar. Women think poorly of men who cheat but many of them support the woman who has relationship troubles and seeks comfort from another man.
This is just based on personal observation though.
DanP
#40
Mar6-10, 07:03 AM
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Quote Quote by TheStatutoryApe View Post
I think that this goes both ways. Males think poorly of females who cheat but many highfive the guy who screwed around with that hot chick from the bar. Women think poorly of men who cheat but many of them support the woman who has relationship troubles and seeks comfort from another man.
This is just based on personal observation though.
And so, the battle of sexes continues. And it will forever. I believe sociobiology got it right, and has a decent insight in some of the social behavior of both sexes.

But leaving aside this, the biggest influence in my life this battles has is the fact it fuels the sitcom industry. And sitcoms make me laugh :P If man and women would not be different, 90% of the sitcoms would cease to exist.
TheStatutoryApe
#41
Mar6-10, 07:43 AM
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Quote Quote by DanP View Post
If man and women would not be different, 90% of the sitcoms would cease to exist.
Only 90%? I can not at the moment think of one that does not play on male/female stereotypes.
Char. Limit
#42
Mar6-10, 04:07 PM
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I thought that was the basis of situational comedy...

In a sitcom, the head of the house will always be a bumbling idiot dad, sometimes abusive, always a lover of sandwiches (ok, maybe not always).

His wife (and he almost always will have one) is mean, smart, often abusive.

Their son will skateboard, do badly in school, usw.

Their daughter will be a prep, often speak in some variant of valley girl, get good grades, and obsess with her hair.

Season to taste and you have a "brand new" TV show.
Math Is Hard
#43
Mar6-10, 04:16 PM
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Quote Quote by BobG View Post
I like UCLA women.
Astronuc
#44
Mar6-10, 05:17 PM
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Quote Quote by DanP View Post
For very long term relationships, which spawned many years, I believe that both man and women should be allowed some "indiscretions". It's damn hard (not impossible) to sleep with the same person for 7 years. It's not always a indication that something is wrong. It really may be a great relation. A **short** adventure is IMO sometimes beneficial. The policy should be "don't tell, don't ask". No knowledge, nobody gets hurt, both partners benefit individually from their respective indiscretions. But if it becomes a habit for any of the persons involved a relation, than it's bad.
I've been with the same woman for nearly 30 years. It's not really that hard or difficult. One just does it. Sure there can be temptation, but then one does not act on it. It's not clear to me that either partner benefits from an indiscretion, and it more likely to cause psychological pain than any benefit. In some cultures, it seems to be expected or even condoned, and some seem resigned to that. However, I think on a personal level, any person whose partner has cheated feels hurt.

When one enters a bilateral relationship, one becomes responsible for the others feelings, and one sacrifices complete independence for a mutual and interdependent relationship.

If one is faced with a partner who has cheated then one has to weigh a number of factors, such as the length of the relationship, the benefits/liabilities of the relationship, the ability to trust the other person and so on. In the end, one has to make the choice that one can live with.
DanP
#45
Mar6-10, 06:20 PM
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Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
I've been with the same woman for nearly 30 years. It's not really that hard or difficult. One just does it.
You are a lucky man.

Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
Sure there can be temptation, but then one does not act on it.
Ideally, indeed you don't. You have the liberty to choose how to act. (Impulse control disorders notwithstanding).

Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
It's not clear to me that either partner benefits from an indiscretion, and it more likely to cause psychological pain than any benefit.
We are different individuals. We don't relate to life in the same way. We react differently to different psychological stimulus. Id only say that a man can easily figure out after a long relation if his women would fancy an indiscretion. If she does, well, set her free. Yeah, you have to fight a little against biology, but I cant deny to the other one what I sometimes wanted. I lived this situation, so Im not speaking only to hear my voice.

Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
When one enters a bilateral relationship, one becomes responsible for the others feelings, and one sacrifices complete independence for a mutual and interdependent relationship.
Im a couple of years past mid 30s, and I never wanted to sacrifice my independence. I desired no marriage, never felt the need of happily ever after, the idea of settling down never appealed to me. Im too young. Serial monogamy works well for me. Id say Im pretty considerate in my longer term relationships, and a committed partner. Is just that I never considerated the possibility of life time bonding.

Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
If one is faced with a partner who has cheated then one has to weigh a number of factors, such as the length of the relationship, the benefits/liabilities of the relationship, the ability to trust the other person and so on. In the end, one has to make the choice that one can live with.
Undoubtedly.
Huckleberry
#46
Mar28-10, 12:07 AM
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Quote Quote by Char. Limit View Post
Well, I have already, to myself, defined cheating as akin to a crime. Yes, it is not a crime, but I feel that cheating is much worse than some of the felonies we have. This is from where I gain the idea of Y being an accessory to X's crime. Sure, X did the crime, but Y helped X. Why should Y get off scot-free?

I like my usage of letters to represent people. Now I see why logicians do that.
If Y is aware of the relationship between X and Z then Y has reason to believe that Z will be harmed if Y is intimate with X. Y also has reason to believe that Z will want to return the favor in a similarly physically intimate manner.

Conversely, if Y performs some act of kindness towards X then Z is not contractually obligated to perform a like kindness towards Y, but may be inclined to do so because Z loves X.

Whomever honors X honors Z, and whomever dishonors X dishonors Z. There is an emotional bond in an equal relationship that is defiled by infidelity. Anyone who's ever been cheated on can feel the betrayal of trust.

It may not be illegal to cheat, and there may be no contractual obligation between Y and Z, but it isn't an innocent act to intentionally cause harm to another person. I think your instincts are right.
Moonbear
#47
Mar28-10, 11:20 AM
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Wow, so much thought into a theory on how to deal with a cheater. I don't know why people make it so complicated. If someone is cheating on you, it's because they aren't all that into you and need another person to satisfy some important part of their needs in a relationship. And, to top it off, they didn't have the courage to admit to the first person that they weren't all that into them and wanted to break up. So, yes, the simple, obvious solution is that if someone is cheating on you, the relationship is broken already and should be ended.
DanP
#48
Mar28-10, 02:43 PM
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Quote Quote by Moonbear View Post
If someone is cheating on you, it's because they aren't all that into you and need another person to satisfy some important part of their needs in a relationship. .
Yeah, but some seem to need Xanax to deal with "betrayal" Life is, most of the time pretty straightforward, and, may I add, usually pretty fair. What goes around, comes around.
DanP
#49
Mar28-10, 02:51 PM
P: 630
Quote Quote by Huckleberry View Post

It may not be illegal to cheat, and there may be no contractual obligation between Y and Z, but it isn't an innocent act to intentionally cause harm to another person. I think your instincts are right.
Well. Problem with "instincts" in this matter is that they are shaped by an obscure set of social norms, which are not observed by all humans. They are not instinct at all, but conformity. "You shall not commit adultery." An ancient , religious, deprecated view. NO ONE owns another person. Not even with the so called 'sacred' bond of matrimony.

I repeat, there is nothing wrong in hitting any women whatsoever from my perspective. A married women is fair game.
Kajahtava
#50
Mar28-10, 04:15 PM
P: 92
She is no different person than before. She still is, as she was, a person that would potentially succumb to cheating. If you thought she wasn't, you have simply never known her well; one could wonder the base of your feelings then.

Otherwise, let's say you never found out? you would then still live in the idea that she wasn't cheating.

I wouldn't hate people for their actions though, that's na´ve, I fully believe that every person on the planet, Ghandi included is fully capable of murder or rape when the right stimuli are given, I find it better to like or dislike people on what they are, id est, how much stimuli is required for them to cross that line. As I said, she still is the same person as before.
GeorginaS
#51
Mar28-10, 04:37 PM
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Quote Quote by DanP View Post
Yeah, but some seem to need Xanax to deal with "betrayal" Life is, most of the time pretty straightforward, and, may I add, usually pretty fair. What goes around, comes around.
I beg to differ. There's nothing inherently "fair" about life in the least. There are no direct patterns. There is no one running show and keeping track and meting out just desserts.

I also find it disturbing (although maybe I'm misinterpreting your use of the "devil" face as mockery) that you find other people's pain scorn worthy. Betrayal hurts. Period.
GeorginaS
#52
Mar28-10, 04:40 PM
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Quote Quote by DanP View Post
I repeat, there is nothing wrong in hitting any women whatsoever from my perspective. A married women is fair game.
I'm going to assume you missed the word "on" in your sentence. Then again, maybe you don't see anything wrong with hitting women.

And yes, I see something wrong with making sexual advances on someone who you know has made a promise to another person. It's called respect and treating people and their choices with respect.
Huckleberry
#53
Mar28-10, 04:40 PM
P: 606
Quote Quote by DanP View Post
Well. Problem with "instincts" in this matter is that they are shaped by an obscure set of social norms, which are not observed by all humans. They are not instinct at all, but conformity. "You shall not commit adultery." An ancient , religious, deprecated view. NO ONE owns another person. Not even with the so called 'sacred' bond of matrimony.

I repeat, there is nothing wrong in hitting any women whatsoever from my perspective. A married women is fair game.
Instinct or conformity, in most parts of the world it is reasonable for Y to believe that a relationship is monogamous. X and Z may have a monogamous relationship and not be religious at all. No one owns another person, but a monogamous relationship is an agreement between two people. People are expected to uphold their agreements, or to at least exit them honorably. That is why clandestine sex outside a monogamous relationship is called cheating. They aren't playing by the agreed upon rules of monogamy.

Moonie, You're right about the relationship already being broken if someone is willing to cheat, though sometimes a relationship can seem to be going well before the indiscretion. There isn't always a clear progression from going well to being broken.

(I'm trying to imagine if I were married and my wife said to me, "You don't own me. I can have sex with whomever I want." That would be the end of that marriage. Sure, I don't own her, but it doesn't follow from that she shouldn't uphold her commitments.)
Dembadon
#54
Mar28-10, 05:07 PM
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Quote Quote by DanP View Post
Well. Problem with "instincts" in this matter is that they are shaped by an obscure set of social norms, which are not observed by all humans. They are not instinct at all, but conformity. "You shall not commit adultery." An ancient , religious, deprecated view. NO ONE owns another person. Not even with the so called 'sacred' bond of matrimony.

I repeat, there is nothing wrong in hitting any women whatsoever from my perspective. A married women is fair game.
One does not have to be religious to hold integrity and honesty high in priority. The very use of the word "cheater" implies there was a mutual agreement that was not honored. Mutual agreements between two people exist everywhere; independent of one's religious beliefs and/or view of marriage.


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