Thread Closed

Albert Einstein: High Functioning Autistic

 
Share Thread
Apr2-10, 04:18 PM   #86
 
Recognitions:
Gold Membership Gold Member

Albert Einstein: High Functioning Autistic


Quote by Kajahtava View Post
So ehh, is there a particular reason you always only quote the top paragraph and waltz over the rest? Are you still trying to find the profound pattern under the superficial chaos?
How do you mean? I offered a neurological view and you claim you had already covered it. You certainly did not engage with the data I supplied. And I still cannot find those same facts in your prior post. So what am I meant to not waltz over here?
Apr2-10, 06:01 PM   #87
 
Quote by apeiron View Post
How do you mean? I offered a neurological view and you claim you had already covered it. You certainly did not engage with the data I supplied. And I still cannot find those same facts in your prior post. So what am I meant to not waltz over here?
Well, 'waltzing' might be an incorrect term, it's more that in all I post, you seem to only quote the first paragraph, respond to that correctly, but ignore the rest. It's not like you waltz over it, you just act as if it isn't there, ignore it.

Is that to say you agree, or that you hadn't read it, aren't able to read it (hence I started about the chaos) ?
Apr2-10, 06:33 PM   #88
 
Recognitions:
Gold Membership Gold Member
Quote by Kajahtava View Post
Is that to say you agree, or that you hadn't read it, aren't able to read it (hence I started about the chaos) ?
In this thread it would be that you have not constructed a case to which a response is really warranted. There are some bits I could vaguely agree with, a lot which is just over the top rhetoric (like all psychiatry is bunk).

I have argued a particular approach based on my familiarity with the neuroscience and psychological literature. People can take it or leave it. But the facts are out there and not terribly hard to find.
Apr2-10, 06:49 PM   #89
 
Quote by apeiron View Post
In this thread it would be that you have not constructed a case to which a response is really warranted. There are some bits I could vaguely agree with, a lot which is just over the top rhetoric (like all psychiatry is bunk).

I have argued a particular approach based on my familiarity with the neuroscience and psychological literature. People can take it or leave it. But the facts are out there and not terribly hard to find.
Well, to be honest, if you call that illustration you just gave a 'neuroscience view' which contained a single case study of a person that did not report back for more research and some other research which lacked a praedicting value... am sceptical to compelling nature of the rest.

In fact, the article itself wasn't bad, it made no more conclusions that it was allowed to make from its data, in fact, it made little conclusions, it just outlined some experimental data and left readers to make up heir own mind. It's not a view, it's the result of some experiments, of which a lot are not scientific experiments / studies but rather 'remarkable documented cases.'

Also, a thing you do indeed 'waltz over' though is my continued point that it needn't be so that what humans perceive as 'one thing' like eidetic memory or 'musical talent' is 'one thing' that has a single defined cause instead of multiple and different causes. These researches all assume it as 'common sense' or in fact implicitly assume it because it's just grounded in human naïve realism, but fail to prove it in the end. Once you assume explicitly the possibility that 'eidetic' memory can have a thousand different neurological causes the researches suddenly become quite quaestionable, same for autism, as the researches fail to prove themselves that in all cases of eidetic memory encountered, the neurology is the same.
Apr2-10, 07:04 PM   #90
 
Recognitions:
Gold Membership Gold Member
Quote by Kajahtava View Post
Once you assume explicitly the possibility that 'eidetic' memory can have a thousand different neurological causes the researches suddenly become quite quaestionable, same for autism, as the researches fail to prove themselves that in all cases of eidetic memory encountered, the neurology is the same.
But instead I seem to make the mistake in your eyes of presuming that Occam's razor should apply in scientific explanation. I indeed search for a common root cause such as "perceptual integration" or "anticipation".

However on the other hand, I am protesting about the collapsing of the category "autistic" and the category "extreme genius" based on some notion of a shared social awkwardness (which indeed is not a wise move, because, as I argue, social awkwardness does have "a thousand causes").
Apr2-10, 07:44 PM   #91
 
What do we make of Dirac?

Then we sat down and the interview began.

"Professor," says I, "I notice you have quite a few letters in front of your last name. Do they stand for anything in particular?"

"No," says he.

"You mean I can write my own ticket?"

"Yes," says he.

"Will it be all right if I say that P.A.M. stands for Poincare' Aloysius Mussolini?"

"Yes," says he.

"Fine," says I, "We are getting along great! Now doctor will you give me in a few words the low-down on all your investigations?"

"No," says he.

"Good," says I. "Will it be all right if I put it this way --- `Professor Dirac solves all the problems of mathematical physics, but is unable to find a better way of figuring out Babe Ruth's batting average'?"

"Yes," says he.

"What do you like best in America?", says I.

"Potatoes," says he.

"Same here," says I. "What is your favorite sport?"

"Chinese chess," says he.

That knocked me cold! It was sure a new one on me! Then I went on: "Do you go to the movies?"

"Yes," says he.

"When?", says I.

"In 1920 --- perhaps also in 1930," says he.

"Do you like to read the Sunday comics?"

"Yes," says he, warming up a bit more than usual.

"This is the most important thing yet, doctor," says I. "It shows that me and you are more alike than I thought. And now I want to ask you something more: They tell me that you and Einstein are the only two real sure-enough high-brows and the only ones who can really understand each other. I wont ask you if this is straight stuff for I know you are too modest to admit it. But I want to know this --- Do you ever run across a fellow that even you can't understand?"

"Yes," says he.

"This well make a great reading for the boys down at the office," says I. "Do you mind releasing to me who he is?"

"Weyl," says he.

The interview came to a sudden end just then, for the doctor pulled out his watch and I dodged and jumped for the door. But he let loose a smile as we parted and I knew that all the time he had been talking to me he was solving some problem that no one else could touch.

But if that fellow Professor Weyl ever lectures in this town again I sure am going to take a try at understanding him! A fellow ought to test his intelligence once in a while.
Apr2-10, 07:59 PM   #92
 
Recognitions:
Gold Membership Gold Member
Well, Dirac comes across as the neurotypical one in this exchange.
Apr3-10, 09:30 AM   #93
 
Quote by apeiron View Post
But instead I seem to make the mistake in your eyes of presuming that Occam's razor should apply in scientific explanation. I indeed search for a common root cause such as "perceptual integration" or "anticipation".
Hmm well, maybe this is related to my view on human 'consciousness', but I did not attempt to point to Ockam here.

However on the other hand, I am protesting about the collapsing of the category "autistic" and the category "extreme genius" based on some notion of a shared social awkwardness (which indeed is not a wise move, because, as I argue, social awkwardness does have "a thousand causes").
I agree. However autism in DSM-IV is more than that. But I find any category which says 'either ... or ...' or 'at least three of ...' hard to believe. If it was a hard category it would use (and ... ... ... ... ... ...) and psychiatrists would McCarthny-short-circuit on the first #f encountered and stop evaluating the rest.

But as I illustrated above, apart from not being a category, the danger is also that by the power of suggestion people have a tendency to see things that are not there, symptoms one doesn't have simply because one has enough symptoms to 'have' autism on the neck, and then start seeing the rest too. Or in the case of that girl even worse, having no symptom at all.

I still don't really understand why you called me 'rhetoric' though, if my vocabulary serves me rhetoric is being concerned with prose and elegant use of language to sway by praesentation rather than content, beforehand you accurately said that my posts are chaotic and badly structured, which is true, as I don't really put a lot of intention into how I phrase things and which words I use, making numerous 'stylistic errors' and having my sentences span the totality of paragraphs so I really don't see how one could find my posts to posses any 'rhetoric'
Thread Closed

Tags
autism, einstein, high functioning

Similar discussions for: Albert Einstein: High Functioning Autistic
Thread Forum Replies
Happy Birthday Albert Einstein! General Discussion 12
Ten Obscure Factoids Concerning Albert Einstein General Discussion 19
Others like Albert Einstein? General Discussion 3
Relativity by Albert Einstein General Physics 9
Einstein, Newton...autistic? General Discussion 1