Health Care Reform - almost a done deal? DONE!


by Ivan Seeking
Tags: care, deal, health, reform
Gokul43201
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#235
Mar23-10, 10:08 AM
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Quote Quote by Brian_C View Post
Obama forgot to tell the ignorant masses that his "reforms" will result in higher premiums for middle class Americans as insurance companies absorb the costs of covering millions of previously uninsured people.
Do you have a reliable independent study supporting that assertion (and how many "middle class Americans" are you talking about: 100 or 100 million)? The last CBO analysis on premiums, from Nov 30, says that most people will see a decrease in costs. I don't believe they've redone that analysis more recently.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...premiums-and-/

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc...0-Premiums.pdf
WhoWee
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Mar23-10, 01:23 PM
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Quote Quote by Gokul43201 View Post
Do you have a reliable independent study supporting that assertion (and how many "middle class Americans" are you talking about: 100 or 100 million)? The last CBO analysis on premiums, from Nov 30, says that most people will see a decrease in costs. I don't believe they've redone that analysis more recently.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...premiums-and-/

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc...0-Premiums.pdf
If anyone pays less, it will be because YOUR taxes subsidized them. Premiums will increae otherwise due to mandated coverage of (high risk) pre-existing conditions and removal of maximum lifetime payouts. The costs to the insurance companies WILL INCREASE - SO WILL PREMIUMS.
MotoH
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Mar23-10, 01:51 PM
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Gokul, where do you think this money will come from? Us middle class citizens will get raped through the nose in the coming years.

4-6 years of taxes before we see any benefits? Just another way for the government to try and make money under the guise of health care.
drankin
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Mar23-10, 02:00 PM
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So, now that 30 million more people have insurance, does this mean there will be more patients or just that their medical bills will be paid by everyone else?

If both, aren't we going to need another 500,000-1,000,000 more doctors and supporting staff?
Ivan Seeking
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Mar23-10, 02:27 PM
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Interesting bit of information about the popularity of this bill. While 59% of those surveyed last weekend opposed the bill, 13% said it is because the bill isn't liberal enough. Those people will mostly fall in line, which means that over 50% of the country supports the bill in principle, with 13% saying it should have gone farther.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/im...3/22/rel5a.pdf

In fact, if we assume that all liberals who wanted more will ultimately support the progress made, that puts the approval of the bill at 52%, which is about the same number that Obama saw in the 2008 election - 53%. 5% are undecided. It is likely that they will also support this with time as the truth begins to sink in.

The popularity of this will continue to rise for many months as the gloom and doom predictions prove to be nonsense. Obama should also take a good bump in the polls. Former President Clinton predicts that he will see a 10 point rise in his approval rating.
MotoH
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Mar23-10, 02:40 PM
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Wow Ivan. You really twisted those poll results to try and strengthen your point.

Oppose: 59%

Oppose because it is too liberal: 43%
Ivan Seeking
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Mar23-10, 02:41 PM
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Note also that the Dow went up yesterday. No doom and gloom.
Ivan Seeking
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Mar23-10, 02:42 PM
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Quote Quote by MotoH View Post
Wow Ivan. You really twisted those poll results to try and strengthen your point.

Oppose: 59%

Oppose because it is too liberal: 43%
No, 39% support the bill, while 13% thought it didn't go far enough. That makes 52%.
humanino
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Mar23-10, 02:42 PM
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Quote Quote by MotoH View Post
Wow Ivan. You really twisted those poll results to try and strengthen your point.

Oppose: 59%

Oppose because it is too liberal: 43%
There was no twist. The number is displayed on the same page, sic :
Oppose, not liberal enough 13%
turbo
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Mar23-10, 02:45 PM
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Also, once people realize that the sky hasn't fallen, and they see some of the more immediate benefits of the legislation, approval will rise.

There are a lot of healthy people with no insurance that would like insurance. Their entry into the market will reduce the experience rates for their pools, which should decrease costs, as long as the insurance companies don't gouge. Getting them early preventative care will reduce the chances for non-covered care for more serious conditions, too, further reducing costs. Hospitals don't provide "free" care to uninsured individuals. They raise the costs of all care so that people with insurance pay for the "free" care.
Ivan Seeking
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Mar23-10, 02:54 PM
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Senator McConnell [R] stood before the chamber and declared that most Americans are dumbfounded today by the passage of this bill.

Clearly that is a lie.
zomgwtf
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#246
Mar23-10, 02:56 PM
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Just wondering... why exactly does the American healthcare system work the way it does (or did I guess)???

Is it just so that the doctors and insurance companies can be free to make as much money as they want and so the goverment doesn't have to step on anyones money making toes???
Topher925
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Mar23-10, 02:59 PM
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Quote Quote by drankin View Post
So, now that 30 million more people have insurance, does this mean there will be more patients or just that their medical bills will be paid by everyone else?

If both, aren't we going to need another 500,000-1,000,000 more doctors and supporting staff?
No, the amount of patients will remain the same. And we already pay all those 32 million people's bills.

There will always be a shortage of medical professionals so long as the AMA caps the amount of doctors that can graduate per year.
Ivan Seeking
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#248
Mar23-10, 04:06 PM
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This is a big f*cking deal
- Vice President Joe Biden
http://www.wgme.com/template/inews_w...wgme.com.shtml

Too funny!!!
edward
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Mar23-10, 04:41 PM
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If the health care reform works Limbaugh says he will leave the country. That alone is a good enough reason to hope that it is successful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLpyO8tC-L0
MotoH
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Mar23-10, 04:43 PM
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I've re-read your information and it is correct. Jumbled, but correct.

Why don't I have benefits now? Why can't I go to the doctors office and get some free care for this soar throat I have?

Oh wait we have to pay taxes until the government has enough money to provide everyone with care.
WhoWee
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Mar23-10, 05:22 PM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
Interesting bit of information about the popularity of this bill. While 59% of those surveyed last weekend opposed the bill, 13% said it is because the bill isn't liberal enough. Those people will mostly fall in line, which means that over 50% of the country supports the bill in principle, with 13% saying it should have gone farther.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/im...3/22/rel5a.pdf

In fact, if we assume that all liberals who wanted more will ultimately support the progress made, that puts the approval of the bill at 52%, which is about the same number that Obama saw in the 2008 election - 53%. 5% are undecided. It is likely that they will also support this with time as the truth begins to sink in.

The popularity of this will continue to rise for many months as the gloom and doom predictions prove to be nonsense. Obama should also take a good bump in the polls. Former President Clinton predicts that he will see a 10 point rise in his approval rating.
If you ask the same people if they would like the Govt to pay their utilities - what do you think they would say?
Gokul43201
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Mar23-10, 05:24 PM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
If anyone pays less, it will be because YOUR taxes subsidized them. Premiums will increae otherwise due to mandated coverage of (high risk) pre-existing conditions and removal of maximum lifetime payouts. The costs to the insurance companies WILL INCREASE - SO WILL PREMIUMS.
Quote Quote by MotoH View Post
Gokul, where do you think this money will come from? Us middle class citizens will get raped through the nose in the coming years.

4-6 years of taxes before we see any benefits? Just another way for the government to try and make money under the guise of health care.
So neither of you knows of a reputable study that calculates the extent of the middle class raping that is to ensue?


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