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Your favorite political rival

by Ivan Seeking
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turbo
#19
Mar23-10, 05:13 PM
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So McConnell doesn't get all the credit (on my part), I rarely agree with Olympia Snowe on most issues. I am glad that she chose to participate in crafting the health-care bill in committee, even though her main intent was to make sure that the public option (which I favor) was eliminated. She took a lot of heat from the GOP, while our other senator, Susan Collins, kept her head down. Maine is a very rural state with a high percentage of low-income citizens, many of whom have part-time and/or seasonal jobs and NO health insurance. Our state would benefit disproportionately from expanded health-care coverage. Thanks Snowe, thanks for nothing Collins.
calculusrocks
#20
Mar23-10, 09:04 PM
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Quote Quote by turbo-1 View Post
I'm off topic? Please take a civics course. The Congress can pass legislation that effectively negates the overly-broad definition of "personhood" that the court handed to corporations. That's their right. If there are legal challenges to that law, the judiciary gets to evaluate the law. That's the way separation of powers works.

All the while W and Shooter were decrying liberal activism on the SC that would "legislate from the bench", they were building a right-wing activist majority that would do exactly that.
I could be wrong, but doesn't the Supreme Court interpret the Constitution? Do you really think that the legislature passing a law on what it views the definition of a person to be would make the difference? I don't.

I'm going to go with Al Gore as well as my rival as well.
turbo
#21
Mar23-10, 09:18 PM
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Quote Quote by calculusrocks View Post
I could be wrong, but doesn't the Supreme Court interpret the Constitution? Do you really think that the legislature passing a law on what it views the definition of a person to be would make the difference? I don't.
Yes, you are wrong, both still and again, so you're at least consistent. Congress can pass a law limiting the rights granted to corporations by the SC. If there is a legal challenge to such a law that makes it up through all the layers of the judiciary, it may be heard by the SC. Those are two separate processes. Congress does not strike down SC decisions, any more than the SC can strike down Congressional decisions. The critical difference is that the SC can alter the intent and interpretation of laws such that the Executive branch may be forced to subvert the will and intent of Congress as it executes law based on SC activism. Please take a course in Civics. It will serve you well if you have any interest in politics.
calculusrocks
#22
Mar23-10, 09:41 PM
P: 25
Quote Quote by turbo-1 View Post
Yes, you are wrong, both still and again, so you're at least consistent. Congress can pass a law limiting the rights granted to corporations by the SC. If there is a legal challenge to such a law that makes it up through all the layers of the judiciary, it may be heard by the SC. Those are two separate processes. Congress does not strike down SC decisions, any more than the SC can strike down Congressional decisions. The critical difference is that the SC can alter the intent and interpretation of laws such that the Executive branch may be forced to subvert the will and intent of Congress as it executes law based on SC activism. Please take a course in Civics. It will serve you well if you have any interest in politics.
You'll have to at least provide a source for your claims. Companies are persons whether you like that or not, and I'm not convinced a bill passed by congress would have the effect you apparently think it does.
calculusrocks
#23
Mar23-10, 09:50 PM
P: 25
turbo, are you saying that the legislature could nullify the 1st amendment?
turbo
#24
Mar23-10, 09:57 PM
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Quote Quote by calculusrocks View Post
You'll have to at least provide a source for your claims. Companies are persons whether you like that or not, and I'm not convinced a bill passed by congress would have the effect you apparently think it does.
You have provided no sources for your far-fetched claims. The authorities of the Congress, the Administration, and he Judiciary are quite well-defined, yet you seem to have no grasp of their spheres of influence/responsibilities. Did your high school have no requirement that students get a basic grasp of civic responsibilities and the functions of the branches of government? It is getting quite tedious to refute political arguments made by someone who apparently makes up rules from thin air, based on ideology. Our Constitution has been bent and perverted in recent years by activists, but it is still the basis for our system of government.
calculusrocks
#25
Mar23-10, 10:01 PM
P: 25
Quote Quote by turbo-1 View Post
You have provided no sources for your far-fetched claims. The authorities of the Congress, the Administration, and he Judiciary are quite well-defined, yet you seem to have no grasp of their spheres of influence/responsibilities. Did your high school have no requirement that students get a basic grasp of civic responsibilities and the functions of the branches of government? It is getting quite tedious to refute political arguments made by someone who apparently makes up rules from thin air, based on ideology. Our Constitution has been bent and perverted in recent years by activists, but it is still the basis for our system of government.
gee wizz, you go way off topic and expect me to cite sources? Look, you try to re-define what a person is by Congress and the Supreme Court is just going to see that as a veiled attempt to usurp their authority to repeal unconstitutional legislation. It ain't going to fly.
turbo
#26
Mar23-10, 10:06 PM
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Quote Quote by calculusrocks View Post
turbo, are you saying that the legislature could nullify the 1st amendment?
Do you need that straw-man? The Congress can legislate to restrict individual rights to INDIVIDUALS, and they should. There is no reason to "nullify" the 1st amendment. There is also no reason to extend that right to artificial conglomerations of investors and their managers. The SC recently did so, legislating from the bench and applying a drastically-broad interpretation of what constitutes an "individual". If you want the US to fall into outright facism, please support that decision. If you want the US to be a representative democracy with reasonable limits on corporations, you might want to reconsider your views.
calculusrocks
#27
Mar23-10, 10:11 PM
P: 25
Quote Quote by turbo-1 View Post
Do you need that straw-man? The Congress can legislate to restrict individual rights to INDIVIDUALS, and they should. There is no reason to "nullify" the 1st amendment. There is also no reason to extend that right to artificial conglomerations of investors and their managers. The SC recently did so, legislating from the bench and applying a drastically-broad interpretation of what constitutes an "individual". If you want the US to fall into outright facism, please support that decision. If you want the US to be a representative democracy with reasonable limits on corporations, you might want to reconsider your views.
I dislike being lured into this conversation, because you were just so off topic. It may be better if you just start another thread on why the Supreme Court condoned fascism in its recent decision, and why if I don't agree with you, then I'm plain ignorant.
calculusrocks
#28
Mar23-10, 10:40 PM
P: 25
oh, you already did start this thread -
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=371543
lisab
#29
Apr2-10, 08:05 PM
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I knew if I thought long enough about it, I'd think of one!

I'm a big fan of Sam Reed, the Secretary of State for Washington. He's a Republican whom I see as eminently fair and balanced. I vote for him every chance I get.
mheslep
#30
Apr4-10, 10:47 PM
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Great idea for a thread Ivan, if people will stick to the point:

Senators:
Webb (Va). He's a serious man, no BS.
Inouye (Ha)
Wyden (Or)
Lieberman (Conn-I)

Administration:
Gates (Defence)
Arne Duncan (Ed)
Ivan Seeking
#31
Apr5-10, 11:43 PM
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Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
Senators:
Webb (Va). He's a serious man, no BS.
No doubt about it. When I wrote Obama, right after he won the Iowa primary, I indicated my support for Webb as VP. Of course, Webb used to be a Republican.

Inouye (Ha)
Wyden (Or)
Very interesting. Could you elaborate a bit. I am curious about your opinion of Wyden in particular [I live in Oregon]

Gates (Defence)
Gates is top-notch but I am surprised that you see him as a political rival. I could have listed him as well.
Char. Limit
#32
Apr5-10, 11:56 PM
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Quote Quote by calculusrocks View Post
turbo, are you saying that the legislature could nullify the 1st amendment?
I don't want to get off-topic, so I'd appreciate it if you put your reply in a visitor message on my profile (but you don't have to), but Congress can repeal amendments... by passing other amendments.

The 21st Amendment repealed the 18th, so there is even a precedent for doing so.
planck
#33
Apr6-10, 04:08 AM
P: 45
This is a good question, but sad at the same time.

I'm right of center, conservative--and as I was trying to think of a leftist or liberal that I respect--I couldn't think of a single one. If he counts, I could put Bill Clinton on the list but he wasn't a doctrinaire liberal. And Joe Lieberman is another good candidate. Although I may disagree with him on many things, I can trust him to put the country's best interest first.

Lani Davis and Bill Richardson would be better choices. Davis was absolutely willing to allow affordable health choices sans govt. And Richardson supports tax cuts--a very pragmatic fellow.

As you could see from my list, most are centrist--that's I said it was sad. I'm unable to take leftists seriously.
lisab
#34
Apr6-10, 07:33 AM
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I know what you mean, planck. I had to think a long, long time before I could think of someone.

Well, we all know the political culture in the US is terribly dysfunctional. Politicians have to put their party's needs ahead of the country's, or they will get no financial support for their next election. So sad.

The guy I mentioned, Sam Reed, has had many well-publicized run-ins with his party, the Republicans, for not toeing the party line. Yet he is clearly to the right of center. Fortunately he has strong support from the voters and can get along without much $ from his party.
mheslep
#35
Apr6-10, 04:16 PM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
Very interesting. Could you elaborate a bit. I am curious about your opinion of Wyden in particular [I live in Oregon]
I liked the Wyden-Bennet health bill, a truly bipartisan effort for a bill that in my view would have been much better than the current law despite some flaws. He must have received a great deal of criticism from his own public-option side for this bill.

Inouye I've seen interviewed a number of times. Edit as I recall more: He's a stone cold WWII war hero, Medal of Honor reciepient, who absolutely loves America, who's almost an exact contemporary of Bob Dole and has overcome similar disabilities to get where he is that would have laid many others flat. He seems to avoid most of the political hyperbole.
http://www.pbs.org/thewar/detail_5339.htm
http://www.pbs.org/thewar/detail_5384.htm


Gates is top-notch but I am surprised that you see him as a political rival. I could have listed him as well.
I don't know about rival. He's a member of the President's cabinet, so I expected that qualified him for the thread, and I wanted to point out a couple who I admire in the administration, given my intense criticism of many of the rest.
mheslep
#36
Apr6-10, 06:16 PM
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BTW, for and Dems who believe it's a vain exercise to find class in the other camp, try this:
http://politicalwire.com/archives/20...riendship.html


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