Noah's Ark and the Great Flood


by chrisalviola
Tags: flood, noah
chrisalviola
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#1
Apr3-10, 12:07 AM
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I used to think that the grate flood and Noah's arc was just a story from a bible that somehow been altered or made but after reading this news in the 70's it made me say wow.

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahsark.htm

I never think a great flood would be possible but now I am wondering
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MotoH
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#2
Apr3-10, 12:40 AM
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For people of that time, the Black Sea area was their whole world, and it was entirely possible for it to flood, and a guy to put a bunch of animals on a boat and hang out for a while.

It is also entirely possible that God told Noah to build a boat. But unfortunately we will never know until we pass on.

And, it is also possible that this never happened, the black sea never flooded, and it is just a story to teach a moral lesson.
Max Faust
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#3
Apr3-10, 05:39 AM
P: 101
Quote Quote by MotoH View Post
possible that this never happened, the black sea never flooded
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory

That being said, the whole "Noah's Ark" thing is of course a bunch of codwopple. The story itself is a blatant plagiarism of the story of Utnapishtim from the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh. It is however possible that someone created a tall tale about having to leave a country which was rich and good (i.e. the Black Sea region) because of flooding. It's just more interesting - from a dramaturgic point of view - to tell about a great flood and a narrow escape by boat, than it is to talk about a dreary march on foot, with all your stash and cattles, always being chased by an ever rising waterline.

zomgwtf
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#4
Apr3-10, 07:41 AM
P: 501

Noah's Ark and the Great Flood


Quote Quote by Max Faust View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory

That being said, the whole "Noah's Ark" thing is of course a bunch of codwopple. The story itself is a blatant plagiarism of the story of Utnapishtim from the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh. It is however possible that someone created a tall tale about having to leave a country which was rich and good (i.e. the Black Sea region) because of flooding. It's just more interesting - from a dramaturgic point of view - to tell about a great flood and a narrow escape by boat, than it is to talk about a dreary march on foot, with all your stash and cattles, always being chased by an ever rising waterline.
Oh yay, someone who understands that a majority of stories in the bible that are 'truth' were actually borrowed from others who came well before these times.
Ivan Seeking
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#5
Apr3-10, 06:19 PM
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We have two similar accounts from approximately the same time. Why would one conclude that they are both false?
zomgwtf
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#6
Apr3-10, 06:32 PM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
We have two similar accounts from approximately the same time. Why would one conclude that they are both false?
Well Noah's Arc and Gilgamesh flood myth are seperated by approximately 500 years... probably more. That in my opinion can not be considered the 'same time'. As well no one said anything about the validity of the stories, just that they look similar... and one came before the other, from around the same areas... I'll leave you to deduce that one your own.

What about the Epic of Atrahasis which came prior to gilgamesh?!?!?! The Black Sea deluge AFAIK is dated at around 5500BCE.
Ivan Seeking
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#7
Apr3-10, 06:33 PM
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Quote Quote by zomgwtf View Post
Well Noah's Arc and Gilgamesh flood myth are seperated by approximately 500 years... probably more. That in my opinion can not be considered the 'same time'. As well no one said anything about the validity of the stories, just that they look similar... and one came before the other, from around the same areas... I'll leave you to deduce that one your own.
There is no way to assign a precise date to either story; that is, unless you believe bible dates, which cannot possibly be confirmed.
zomgwtf
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#8
Apr3-10, 07:24 PM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
There is no way to assign a precise date to either story; that is, unless you believe bible dates, which cannot possibly be confirmed.
It's not a precise date... who said THAT either? My goodness Ivan your full of assumption today.
Max Faust
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#9
Apr3-10, 08:01 PM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
bible dates, which cannot possibly be confirmed
I think there is a whole discipline of crypto-archaolegy which is trying to compare various sources of ancient, Middle-Eastern information in order to establish a reasonable timeline for the claimed historical events. But that doesn't really concern the topic at hand. From what I have learned (thanks to a person on this site, no less), the estimated date of the Black Sea deluge is about 7,500 BC; by far too early - by THOUSANDS of years - for any written records of any events in the region. So we have to assume that if it is connected, it is through an oral tradition of storytelling, which it is only fair to assume placed much greater emphasis on dramatical force of "performance" than on historical accuracy of the actual events.
Ivan Seeking
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#10
Apr6-10, 11:16 AM
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Quote Quote by zomgwtf View Post
It's not a precise date... who said THAT either? My goodness Ivan your full of assumption today.
Now I'm confused. I thought your objection was the date. What is your objection if not the dates?
zomgwtf
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#11
Apr6-10, 10:15 PM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
Now I'm confused. I thought your objection was the date. What is your objection if not the dates?
No not the dates. I was just leading on the discussion that the stories are similiar and come pretty sequential. You can find these types of stories all throughout the bible, that they are copies of a previous story which was altered to fit the bible. So for the Great Flood I was leading to the Black Sea deluge theory making sense. The stories seem to go back to then, however we can't be certain as there was no written accounts that far back. They probably survived as stories of sorts and eventually were written down. You see this a lot in Native American stories (I'm metis so I know quite a few of them).
zomgwtf
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#12
Apr6-10, 10:30 PM
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As well there's a show on the History channel right now called 'Ancient Weather'. This episode is about the Black Sea deluge and as I'm typing this they are talking about the farming community which was displaced due to the flood.
mgb_phys
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Apr6-10, 11:10 PM
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That's about the time that separates the Trojan war (11-12C BCE?) and the illiad (5-6C BCE?), so a historical event getting incorporated in a story 500years later isn't too far fetched
Chronos
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#14
Apr6-10, 11:22 PM
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The last ice age ended around 12,000 years ago. The biblical tale of Noah was probably borrowed from Gilgamesh. It would not be unusual for accountings written around the time of the early bible, which were mostly mythical. Sea levels were about 100 feet lower when the last ice age ended. The melt water would have caused a great flood in their minds. A 100 foot rise in sea level now would also be historically noteworthy.
mgb_phys
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Apr6-10, 11:34 PM
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Quote Quote by Chronos View Post
The last ice age ended around 12,000 years ago. ....The melt water would have caused a great flood in their minds. A 100 foot rise in sea level now would also be historically noteworthy.
The end of the last ice age depends where you live, the big jump for northern Europe was the younger dryas about 14,500BP. Ironically this could have reduced water levels in the middle east, as rivers that were draining glaciers across siberia could drain into the new North sea.
zomgwtf
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#16
Apr7-10, 12:46 AM
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I wonder what would turn up if one actually attempted to trace back flood stories.

As well mgb you're somewhat right. At the end of the last glacial period the Saraha dried right up. However, because of the Earths tilt and other factors the monsoon was further North so much of what is now the Saraha was actually pretty lush enviroment. Eventually the monsoon shifted further south and the desert dried right back up. You can see this by following the settlements in the Saraha. They move along ancient lakes, it's pretty cool actually. The end of the glacial period though also is a factor in the Black Sea deluge.

It had happened 3 centuries prior to Gilgamesh's rule (2700BCE). So possibly there is further flood stories to trace back? I don't think there is written record of such event though.
Chronos
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#17
Apr7-10, 02:44 AM
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Written language was virtually nonexistent in 10,000 bce. Oral traditions were passed down for many generations before the stories were recorded. It is generally believed this this occured no earlier than 6000 bce. These original authors had little sense of time aside from past, present and future, hence all time lines in their stories are highly dubious. They were also extremely superstitious and prone to ascribing natural events like earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and 'great' floods to any number of 'gods'. That was no more, and no less, than the oral tradition they were attempting to preserve.
zomgwtf
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#18
Apr7-10, 08:04 AM
P: 501
I do not think that the Great Flood from the bible had occured 10000BCE, that's pretty difficult for me to think considering the location and the amount of time.


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