Vagina Dentata


by olek1991
Tags: dentata, vagina
Shalashaska
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#55
Apr28-10, 01:06 PM
P: 91
Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
I know that the pyschological angle on this is another issue, but we do have a doctor claiming other doctors have seen this. I don't think we can conclude that there is no evidence to support the claim; not yet.
I would put forth the notion that if such evidence existed, it would have been published. Frankly, such a cyst in the vagina would be painful and noticeable, long before anything like a tooth developed. Remember also, that a tooth in the vagina would chaff or scratch the woman in question. In the case of a newborn, this would certainly be published. It's not unheard of for a baby to be born with a dermoid cyst of the ovary, and you never know what you'll find in them. That's nothing like a tooth protruding through the vaginal walls.

I've searched the JAMA archives, and there is no record at all of Vagina Dentata as anything except a psychological issue. Anecdotes two or three times removed are meaningless without corroboration. There is no doubt at all that women can develop or be born with dermoid cysts in the vagina, but is THAT really vagina dentata? A tooth-like calcification entombed in a cyst is a far cry from a tooth lined vagina. Frankly, I suspect the issue arises from the appearance of the entrance to the vagina, with its ridges and crenelations.
Shalashaska
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#56
Apr28-10, 01:14 PM
P: 91
Quote Quote by Dr Dean
So this woman had one in the pelvic region and the cyst grew teeth, and when it ruptured through the wall where her uterus joins her vagina...
Again, that's not really vagina dentata, or even a vaginal cyst. He's describing rupture by the teeth or penetration of tissues by the cyst, through vaginal wall. The cysts probably began on an ovary. His story is interesting, but after his brief sobriquet all he really presents is a common folktale and myth, and is a long way from a cyst. No one is disputing the existence of dermoid cysts, but to be vagina dentata, I think we need to be talking about teeth in the vagina, not a growth.

That, and without publishing his findings in a manner other than a health blog, it's just not scientific.
Ivan Seeking
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#57
Apr28-10, 01:21 PM
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Quote Quote by Shalashaska View Post
Again, that's not really vagina dentata, or even a vaginal cyst. He's describing rupture by the teeth or penetration of tissues by the cyst, through vaginal wall. The cysts probably began on an ovary. His story is interesting, but after his brief sobriquet all he really presents is a common folktale and myth, and is a long way from a cyst. No one is disputing the existence of dermoid cysts, but to be vagina dentata, I think we need to be talking about teeth in the vagina, not a growth.

That, and without publishing his findings in a manner other than a health blog, it's just not scientific.
I already specified that it is an anecdotal account, but it comes from a medical source, so I'm not inclined to ignore the claim entirely.

Also, if this condition occurs from time to time, it certainly has a cause that makes sense, so I hardly consider objections to the cause to be reason to reject the claim. Cysts or rare medical aberrations could be sources for some myths and folklore.
Ivan Seeking
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#58
Apr28-10, 03:13 PM
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Quote Quote by Shalashaska View Post
I would put forth the notion that if such evidence existed, it would have been published.
Have you reviewed all of the medical literature, globally? I don't know when we can claim that all possible sources of validation for this claim have been exhausted, do you?
zomgwtf
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#59
Apr28-10, 04:07 PM
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Quote Quote by cronxeh View Post
granted zomgwtf keeps posting stuff that has nothing to do with literal Vagina Dentata.
Who are you again??? What have you added here? The cysts are a real possible answer to what has a common name as Vagina Dentata. There is NO such thing as 'vagina dentata' in medicine so I don't know why you're talking about 'literal vagina dentata' for. Do you even understand the 'legend/myth'? What I am posting is the only plausible reason of what this could be from my personal knowledge of biology and medicine. This logic has been shared by a few other people who have already posted here including a doctor.

And as for zomgwtf: I know what a cyst is, and as I said before, a cyst does not count as part of an organ, therefore you should stop bringing it up here, especially since it is not in any way calcified matter and does not even come close to be classified as teeth.
Who ever said that the teeth were 'part of' the vagina? I don't recall that being stated. I do recall being stated that they were IN the vagina. Of course teeth aren't part of the vagina. Since you seem to know 'oh-so-much-more' than I do about these cysts can you provide to me a method by which these specific cysts are detected? For instance if a dermoid cyst was thought to be in the ovaries what would be a simple and non-invasive(pretty much) procedure that would be able to detect it?

As well: Again who are you? I hardly think you're in a position to tell me what to stop posting.

As far as I'm concerned unless someone posts an actual case study of a solid matter that was growing in the vaginal lining, be it cancer or some strange bacterial mutation, Vagina Dermata is an urban myth.
That's nice that you hold the opinion that teeth have never been observed in the vagina. How about you just say that instead of constantly throwing these feeble attacks at what I presented to show that teeth in the vagina is plausible and possible.

Also since what I had posted earlier was challeneged and I required to post medical citations I'm going to ask the same of you. I challenge you. Provide sources to back up your claim that dermoid cysts have nothing to do with the myth vagina dentata. Provide sources that what grows inside of a cyst can not be classified as a tooth and evidence showing that calcified substances do not occur inside cysts.

EDIT: Removed insult. hmph.
zomgwtf
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#60
Apr28-10, 04:11 PM
P: 501
Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
I agree that we have not seen a credible source confirming this claim. We have links that discuss vaginal cysts, and links that talk about hair and teeth growing from cysts, but nothing that I have seen confirms that teeth have ever been found in vaginal cysts. I had misread a link that zomgwtf sent by PM.
There have only been 5 paravaginal dermoid cysts observed in recorded english medicine. I've sent you two reports of them and posted one here (the other had graphic images). It's pretty unlikely that one of those had developed teeth. The two reports I read they had grown long clumps of hair.

You do concede, unlike cronxeh though, that dermoid cysts do present a plausible explanation for Vagina Dentata?
Ivan Seeking
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#61
Apr28-10, 08:57 PM
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Quote Quote by zomgwtf View Post
There have only been 5 paravaginal dermoid cysts observed in recorded english medicine. I've sent you two reports of them and posted one here (the other had graphic images). It's pretty unlikely that one of those had developed teeth. The two reports I read they had grown long clumps of hair.

You do concede, unlike cronxeh though, that dermoid cysts do present a plausible explanation for Vagina Dentata?
It would seem to, but since I'm not an expert, my concession has no value. I'm just playing it by the numbers.

If this happens it must be very rare, All speculation aside [no pun intended], I don't think we have seen any definitive evidence that a case has been documented. I would like to avoid any further speculation. If anyone has any appropriate evidence - a proper medical journal - please post it.
Shalashaska
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#62
Apr28-10, 09:05 PM
P: 91
Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
It would seem to, but since I'm not an expert, my concession has no value. I'm just playing it by the numbers.

If this happens it must be very rare, All speculation aside [no pun intended], I don't think we have seen any definitive evidence that a case has been documented. I would like to avoid any further speculation. If anyone has any appropriate evidence - a proper medical journal - please post it.
Here is how Vagina Dentata is usually used in the medical community: an example:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/u4v14164jr424441/

Which is then cited in the New England Journal of Medicine:

http://depts.washington.edu/cfar/Pri...rse/celum1.pdf

Because it is already established that no CONFIRMED or RELIABLE cases have ever been presented for peer review. Given the relative ease of doing so, and the need to publish or perish, it's absurd to think that such a curiosity would go unnoticed. Given also that it has been well established as a psychological issue, and that in all cases of dermoid cysts in the vagina which CAN be found, indicate that this has not happened. You're welcome of course, to draw the conclusion that in the absence of evidence refuting one's imagination, that such a thing may exist. That isn't skepticism however, nor is it science, and it sure as HELL isn't medicine.
Ivan Seeking
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#63
Apr28-10, 09:08 PM
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There are no known modern cases that anyone has been able to find so far. If someone has a proper medical journal stating explicity that this has never been documented, then please post it. Personal opinions carry less weight than does even anecdotal evidence.
MotoH
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#64
Apr28-10, 09:19 PM
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You guys are still talking about teeth inside of a vag?
Ivan Seeking
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#65
Apr28-10, 09:23 PM
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Quote Quote by MotoH View Post
You guys are still talking about teeth inside of a vag?
Unfortunately, yes. Now if everyone would act like adults, we are open to any proper evidence that anyone can find - one way or the other. By proper I mean that it must be a reference from an applicable, mainstream medical journal.
Shalashaska
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#66
Apr28-10, 09:34 PM
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Quote Quote by MotoH View Post
You guys are still talking about teeth inside of a vag?
MotoH, it isn't for lack of trying to explain that it's a neurosis, and not an illness. If you have any ideas as to how to better communicate that, I'd be right thrilled to hear them! I'm new, and didn't expect this kind of reception given what colleagues have said about this site. It's been a strange mix of helpful and friendly, and then... this.
zomgwtf
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#67
Apr28-10, 09:38 PM
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Quote Quote by Shalashaska View Post
MotoH, it isn't for lack of trying to explain that it's a neurosis, and not an illness. If you have any ideas as to how to better communicate that, I'd be right thrilled to hear them! I'm new, and didn't expect this kind of reception given what colleagues have said about this site. It's been a strange mix of helpful and friendly, and then... this.
It's definitely plausible that it's a mental illness. However this type of thought goes back quite far... I still think that it's ALSO plausible that some sort of cyst (for actual teeth) or even some other growth which was hard/sharp in the vagina could be the origin of it all.
Ivan Seeking
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#68
Apr28-10, 09:53 PM
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The subject is definitely found in the psychological arena. In fact that was the first thing that I posted. Now let's move on.
Shalashaska
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#69
Apr28-10, 09:53 PM
P: 91
Quote Quote by zomgwtf View Post
It's definitely plausible that it's a mental illness. However this type of thought goes back quite far... I still think that it's ALSO plausible that some sort of cyst (for actual teeth) or even some other growth which was hard/sharp in the vagina could be the origin of it all.
Let me be really clear, Vagina Dentata isn't a mental illness, although it can be a symptom of one. It's a neurosis; a sequelae of (usually) an anxiety disorder, like Koro, and many other similar fixations. The issue is usually GAD or an acute anxiety disorder, or a result of sexual trauma. Vaginismus is an excellent example of how powerful such experiences can be in shaping mental AND physical reactions.

The other thing is that we all agree that it's POSSIBLE for such a cyst to grow, but it hasn't been documented, and Occam's Razor does a real job on that notion as the origin of the mythology. If we can get into respectable psychology, there is a lot of material one can find with a simple internet search in APA archives, or Google if you don't have access. It's considered an archetype of the "predatory" woman, or the shrew who must be tamed.
Ivan Seeking
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#70
Apr28-10, 09:54 PM
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Better yet, anyone finding a proper reference can send me a pm. I can't babysit this thread all night.
christopherV
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#71
May3-10, 06:26 PM
P: 58
medical textbook with photo... if you don't think it's appropriate don't follow the link.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17921...1-h.htm#Pg_212


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