What would be proof that God exists?

olde drunk

man's very nature is GOOD! (he is in the likeness of god). we only see the negative when we believe in the evil of man.

as you BELIEVE, so shall it be.

love&peace,
olde drunk

Nicomachus

There you go again with your self-righteousness. No it is not my "conscience" talking, it is you and your nonsense. Defend yourself. You entered this thread with only the intention of proselytizing; why have you not responded to any criticism? I don't care about your irrelavent and emotional Bible verses, they have no relavence. Now you are going on some tangent about terrorism. Nonsense. All you have are vacuous arguments and you try to distract others away from your erroneous assertions with all these kind of statements. Don't be so intellectually dishonest; defend the criticism or concede.
*Nico

dschouten

OLDE DRUNK:
First, I must tell you how I much I empathise with you and your attempts to at least broach the topic reasonably with the oft-debunked wierdo DavidSF.

Nonetheless, the above quote is a farce, and shouldn't be allowed to pass by without reproach. Consider, if man's nature is good, whence this belief in the evil of man? Specifically, who is doing the believing? I can only assume that man is believing in the evil of man...which begs the question, why would a good being invent a belief in its own evil?

dschouten

Of course you do, otherwise this forum wouldn't even exist...

For all the atheists out there, we sure spend a lot of time talking about God.

Nicomachus

dschouten, no you must understand what I mean. I meant that I do not care about the particular Bible verses he recited pertaining to emotional pleas and speaking of me going to hell or being ignorant. The verse about the Sower and so forth are perfectly fine for this discussion. Quoting random verses though, I find irrelavent and unproductive.
*Nico

dschouten

Ok, sounds good.

DavidSF

Nico,
Why do you seem so intent on trying to prove that there is no God? if this is your intent, then who in the world could say anything that could change your mind.
Tell us, define for us, what is the truth for you Nico, what would you call proof of God's existance.

Just so that you can complain again about my irrelavent information, this is the truth in my eyes.

Proverbs 6:
23. For the commandment is a lamp, and the law is light; reproofs of instruction are the way of life.

David

olde drunk

if i may butt in? lol

no one said they didn't believe in god.

we simply found your blind faith foolish. quoting the bible, to people who dismiss it as a source of valid information, is fruitless.

to my satisfaction, i have proved, to myself, that there is something. i would rather discuss the nature of reality with an atheist than a bible banger. we can expand our beliefs without trying to change the other.

i do not believe that there is a PATH. we each have our own personal path that leads us toward fulfillment.

in reality, no one can prove anything. we each must find our truth.

dschouten
who knows? is it possible that that the church elders said/did this to control the faithful? in other words, you don't understand what we know, and BECAUSE you have the capability to do evil you must believe us. and, oh yeah, it is this evil nature that will deny you heaven, BUT, listen to us and we will show you how to gain heaven.

oh, what is heaven? gee, let's see. ummmm, it is a glorious place where you can have any and everything you wish; even 69 virgins. so? is it worthwhile listening to and obeying us?

does this sound like the best marketing scheme, EVER?

that's my guess. since rejecting traditional beliefs, ironically, i have found a better world. think real hard. don't you feel better when you do something nice and worse when you do something wrong? these feelings, for me, bespeak the true nature of man.

perhaps an oversimplification, but it works.

love&peace,
olde drunk

DavidSF

Ye olde drunk,
Have you not caught on yet, cant you see where I am coming from, I am the exact opposite to a Bible banger, if you went to the church with what I have said, they would throw you out, big time man.

We have an invisible all powerful energy (God 'For thine is the kingdom, the POWER and the glory forever') which works according to the rules of electrical and the electromagnetic energy laws of nature (he created all things even electrical energy 'comprendeee'). And the fundamental structure of space time itself. (have you heard the biblical expression 'Sit at the right hand of God' do you know the right hand rule for electromagnetic energy).

Please dont tell me the creator of the universe cannot see the future and has not had a hand in our current day terminolgy.

I have already said that the church doctrine is inadequate in that:
Mathew 23:
13. "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

I tried to represent to you all an alternate scientific viewpoint, It has personally led me into an incredible technical insite into the functioning of our atomic universe.

All I am saying is look for yourselves, dont just take my word for it. It is enough that I draw your attention to it.

I know that your first impressions are of immense dis-belief, but you are all smart enough (I hope) to have the intelligence to understand that you should ask this question within your own minds:
Why over over thousands of years of blood, sweat and tears was the Bible written (Inspired by God) for you all, if it was not for your complete mental development, so that you could finally see in your mind and know your creator (Father), and understand the fundamental energy laws of the universe itself (after all God is the universe and these laws, he cannot break his own laws).

Step outside of the conventional church doctrines and look beyond the milk of the word.

Step into the knowledge that opens up the heavens to you. I cant make it any clearer for you all.

Good luck and God bless.

David.

Janitor

Some Believers go so far as to say that God essentially dictated the original words of the Bible directly to the human writers. Then, given the scripture which says something like "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever," it follows that God also speaks directly to modern Believers as well.

A challenge for David or any other Believer: Post for us the lead headline of the New York Times for July 1, 2004. Now you may well object on the basis that God doesn't want just anybody knowing such a piece of information ahead of time. If that is your objection, go ahead and post an anagram of the headline. (Example: OSAMA CAPTURED can be converted to the anagram AAACDEMOPSTU)

Or alternatively, tell us why God refuses to do this for you.

loseyourname

It's an incredible con job when you think of it, to believe something now in exchange for life after death. Even corporations with all their reward systems don't try to make it posthumous. -- Gloria Steinem

DavidSF

How many people have had a premonition, given usually for the purpose of self preservation, to protect you, some even say I have a guardian angel.

We all receive visions and other information, in dreams or awake etc, a form of deja-vu, but most people have been told by others who dont receive much, it is just mere coincidences.

It doesn't matter whether asleep or awake, it still happens. It is in fact the ability of the mind to communicate, as a sort of extra sensory perception, prayer is a perfected example of this type of communication.

As far as the New York Times for July 1, 2004 goes, All I received is "Though shall not tempt the Lord thy God", Sorry.

David.

loseyourname

God still speaks to you in Elizabethan English?

DavidSF

It is not me who speaks:
John 6:
56. "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

NeutronStar

If God would buy me a Mercedes Benz that'd be proof enough for me.

eureka

Just a thought.. How could you explain the intricate design of the DNA? which is the signature of all living things.

if there's a design, there should be a designer.

NeutronStar

This is only true if the design is pre-planned. There's no logical reason to believe that DNA or living things were necessarily pre-planned.