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What would be proof that God exists?

by Laser Eyes
Tags: exists, proof
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olde drunk
#127
Jun19-04, 07:07 AM
P: 532
Quote Quote by DavidSF
Nico,
Why do you seem so intent on trying to prove that there is no God? if this is your intent, then who in the world could say anything that could change your mind.
Tell us, define for us, what is the truth for you Nico, what would you call proof of God's existance.

Just so that you can complain again about my irrelavent information, this is the truth in my eyes.

Proverbs 6:
23. For the commandment is a lamp, and the law is light; reproofs of instruction are the way of life.

David
if i may butt in? lol

no one said they didn't believe in god.

we simply found your blind faith foolish. quoting the bible, to people who dismiss it as a source of valid information, is fruitless.

to my satisfaction, i have proved, to myself, that there is something. i would rather discuss the nature of reality with an atheist than a bible banger. we can expand our beliefs without trying to change the other.

i do not believe that there is a PATH. we each have our own personal path that leads us toward fulfillment.

in reality, no one can prove anything. we each must find our truth.

dschouten
which begs the question, why would a good being invent a belief in its own evil?
who knows? is it possible that that the church elders said/did this to control the faithful? in other words, you don't understand what we know, and BECAUSE you have the capability to do evil you must believe us. and, oh yeah, it is this evil nature that will deny you heaven, BUT, listen to us and we will show you how to gain heaven.

oh, what is heaven? gee, let's see. ummmm, it is a glorious place where you can have any and everything you wish; even 69 virgins. so? is it worthwhile listening to and obeying us?

does this sound like the best marketing scheme, EVER?

that's my guess. since rejecting traditional beliefs, ironically, i have found a better world. think real hard. don't you feel better when you do something nice and worse when you do something wrong? these feelings, for me, bespeak the true nature of man.

perhaps an oversimplification, but it works.

love&peace,
olde drunk
DavidSF
#128
Jun19-04, 10:13 AM
P: 38
Ye olde drunk,
Have you not caught on yet, cant you see where I am coming from, I am the exact opposite to a Bible banger, if you went to the church with what I have said, they would throw you out, big time man.

We have an invisible all powerful energy (God 'For thine is the kingdom, the POWER and the glory forever') which works according to the rules of electrical and the electromagnetic energy laws of nature (he created all things even electrical energy 'comprendeee'). And the fundamental structure of space time itself. (have you heard the biblical expression 'Sit at the right hand of God' do you know the right hand rule for electromagnetic energy).

Please dont tell me the creator of the universe cannot see the future and has not had a hand in our current day terminolgy.

I have already said that the church doctrine is inadequate in that:
Mathew 23:
13. "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

I tried to represent to you all an alternate scientific viewpoint, It has personally led me into an incredible technical insite into the functioning of our atomic universe.

All I am saying is look for yourselves, dont just take my word for it. It is enough that I draw your attention to it.

I know that your first impressions are of immense dis-belief, but you are all smart enough (I hope) to have the intelligence to understand that you should ask this question within your own minds:
Why over over thousands of years of blood, sweat and tears was the Bible written (Inspired by God) for you all, if it was not for your complete mental development, so that you could finally see in your mind and know your creator (Father), and understand the fundamental energy laws of the universe itself (after all God is the universe and these laws, he cannot break his own laws).

Step outside of the conventional church doctrines and look beyond the milk of the word.

Step into the knowledge that opens up the heavens to you. I cant make it any clearer for you all.

Good luck and God bless.

David.
Janitor
#129
Jun19-04, 01:15 PM
Sci Advisor
P: 1,189
the Bible written (Inspired by God)- DavidSF
Some Believers go so far as to say that God essentially dictated the original words of the Bible directly to the human writers. Then, given the scripture which says something like "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever," it follows that God also speaks directly to modern Believers as well.

A challenge for David or any other Believer: Post for us the lead headline of the New York Times for July 1, 2004. Now you may well object on the basis that God doesn't want just anybody knowing such a piece of information ahead of time. If that is your objection, go ahead and post an anagram of the headline. (Example: OSAMA CAPTURED can be converted to the anagram AAACDEMOPSTU)

Or alternatively, tell us why God refuses to do this for you.
loseyourname
#130
Jun19-04, 04:30 PM
Emeritus
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P: 3,634
Quote Quote by olde drunk
does this sound like the best marketing scheme, EVER?
It's an incredible con job when you think of it, to believe something now in exchange for life after death. Even corporations with all their reward systems don't try to make it posthumous. -- Gloria Steinem
DavidSF
#131
Jun20-04, 12:44 AM
P: 38
How many people have had a premonition, given usually for the purpose of self preservation, to protect you, some even say I have a guardian angel.

We all receive visions and other information, in dreams or awake etc, a form of deja-vu, but most people have been told by others who dont receive much, it is just mere coincidences.

It doesn't matter whether asleep or awake, it still happens. It is in fact the ability of the mind to communicate, as a sort of extra sensory perception, prayer is a perfected example of this type of communication.

As far as the New York Times for July 1, 2004 goes, All I received is "Though shall not tempt the Lord thy God", Sorry.

David.
loseyourname
#132
Jun20-04, 01:01 AM
Emeritus
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God still speaks to you in Elizabethan English?
DavidSF
#133
Jun20-04, 04:45 AM
P: 38
It is not me who speaks:
John 6:
56. "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
NeutronStar
#134
Jun20-04, 09:40 AM
P: 418
If God would buy me a Mercedes Benz that'd be proof enough for me.
eureka
#135
Jun20-04, 12:17 PM
P: 11
Just a thought.. How could you explain the intricate design of the DNA? which is the signature of all living things.

if there's a design, there should be a designer.
NeutronStar
#136
Jun20-04, 01:52 PM
P: 418
Quote Quote by eureka
if there's a design, there should be a designer.
This is only true if the design is pre-planned. There's no logical reason to believe that DNA or living things were necessarily pre-planned.
Nicomachus
#137
Jun20-04, 02:35 PM
P: 121
DavdSF, tsk tsk.

2 Peter 1.20: "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of private interpretation. "

Oh, eureka, that's funny. I love the teleological, its so ridiculous. Anyway, you are begging the question so I don't see your point. heh.
*Nico
Russell E. Rierson
#138
Jun20-04, 05:03 PM
P: 389
Here is an interesting/strange proof:


http://www.talkaboutreligion.com/gro...ages/3521.html


Mary Baker Eddy founded the church in 1879 in Boston
as a "scientific" Church. Her "science of God"
amounted to the following:

1. "God is mind"
2. "Heaven is a mental state"
3. God is a perfect man with a perfect mind
4. There is no perfect man on Earth

Now, bear in mind, this is the first religion in
history to make an actual scientific statement about
what God is: It says, "God is mind".



Janitor
#139
Jun20-04, 05:29 PM
Sci Advisor
P: 1,189
A good ten years ago I listened to quite a few of Bob Larson's Christian radio programs. That was back when his format was to invite people to phone him and discuss or debate his particular brand of Christianity. (I drifted away when his program evolved into on-the-air exorcisms.) If I am remembering correctly, he was especially abusive of Christian Science, in addition to Mormonism and maybe Jehovah's Witness.
DavidSF
#140
Jun20-04, 10:56 PM
P: 38
Originally Posted by eureka
(Just a thought.. How could you explain the intricate design of the DNA? which is the signature of all living things.

if there's a design, there should be a designer.)

The true motions within the heavens for all atomic matter is spiral (not circular), from our relative perspective we incorrectly assume circular motion. The solar system is not stationary and the universal does not revolve around us, we move at high velocity through the universe.

For this reason the spiral DNA pattern is produced in the format it is. The earth spirals around other bodies, for example the Sun. The created DNA cell pattern is therefore principlely designed, following the laws of the main spiral path, and the smaller refinements are inserted by more local daily spiral influences.

The laws constructing the spiral design are written in the scripture, The designer is God as he is the velocity/energy of these Spiral laws.

David
DavidSF
#141
Jun21-04, 05:09 AM
P: 38
Dear Nico,
Go home and study, you dont have the intelligence to be able to answer my own personal questions let alone the question others. eureka asked a very intelligent question and you thought it was funny and ridiculous, he deserved a sensible answer.
I hope everybody has the intelligence to see you Nico for what you are.
There is much to learn by all and we learn by listening, in this way we become wise.

Proverbs 1:
5. A wise man will hear and increase learning, and a man of understanding will attain wise counsel,

David
eureka
#142
Jun21-04, 05:53 AM
P: 11
Thank you for the support DavidSF :)
dschouten
#143
Jun21-04, 02:29 PM
P: 94
Quote Quote by DavidSF

The true motions within the heavens for all atomic matter is spiral (not circular), from our relative perspective we incorrectly assume circular motion. The solar system is not stationary and the universal does not revolve around us, we move at high velocity through the universe.

For this reason the spiral DNA pattern is produced in the format it is. The earth spirals around other bodies, for example the Sun. The created DNA cell pattern is therefore principlely designed, following the laws of the main spiral path, and the smaller refinements are inserted by more local daily spiral influences.

David
The nonsensical drivel you continually perpetuate shouldn't be dignified with an argument against it. Yours are the foolish ramblings of a dreamer or conjurer who has thus far refused to bring any of his dreams or "hypothesis" (using the term loosely) to the test of reality.

In short, you should just shut your vitual mouth and take your new age mysticism back to the crack syringe it came from.

A much better explanation of DNA design (in point form for the sake of brevity):

1. Dogs bark
2. When ice freezes it is cold.
3. The universe is made of stuff.
4. Round things move helically.
5. Therefore, clearly, DNA.

A similar argument could establish David S.F.'s inability to reason:

1. The solar system is made of little fairy gods.
2. When my hair falls out, the spirt of the great bear weeps.
3. Smoking crack moves one up the ladder of zen.
4. Therefore, David cannot think.
RAD4921
#144
Jun21-04, 07:12 PM
P: 314
The design argument for the existence of God seems to be the greatest proof of some sort of intelligence governing the universe. Indeed there is a great deal of complex organization in the universe and it is natural to ask why. Some people claim that Buddhist are atheist but this has to do with people who are "enlightened" claiming that the ultimate reality of the universe is beyond explanation.
Most atheist are people who are not very educated and are in conflict with their religion that predominates in their culture (For an instance, Christianity in the United States)or are nonbelievers for political reasons. The word "god" implies a being that is supreme and this can come into conflict of what consciousness might be. The idea of a hierarchy of consciousness is a turn off to some modern thinkers and these people may be labeled "atheist' simply for semantic reasons.
Well educated atheist argue the design argument for the existence of "god" say that the universe is the way it is because a roll of the dice. That a cyclic or an infinite replicating universe(s) would eventually produce a universe that would develope life and APPEAR highly organized.
Physicist Stephan Hawking said in his famous book' "A Breif History of Time", that the chances of the universe creating itself the way it is by accident, would be like a monkey randomly banging out a Shakespeare play on a typewriter.

I find great psycholgical comfort believing in an cosmic intelligence and I tend to lean in that direction because of the great amount of organization in the universe (The word organism comes from the word "organize". If I am wrong and my consciousness is mortal and I will fail to exist for eternity then that isn't so horrible. Some people claim that the idea of immortality frightens them. Who knows?
"For God to pass judgment upon us would be for him to pass judgment upon himself"---Albert Einsten


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