Space elevator and ionoshphere

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential electrical implications of a space elevator in relation to the ionosphere, specifically whether it would short circuit the voltage difference between the Earth and the ionosphere, which is suggested to be around 250,000 volts. Participants explore the resistance of the elevator, the source of the voltage figure, and the thermal effects that might arise.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether a space elevator would short circuit the voltage difference between the Earth and the ionosphere, suggesting it would have high resistance.
  • There is uncertainty about the validity of the 250,000 volt figure, with requests for sources to support this claim.
  • A participant mentions a television show that discussed the voltage, although they cannot recall specific details or the name of the show.
  • Another participant suggests that if the voltage is accurate, the space elevator could generate significant heat.
  • One participant references Richard Feynman's lecture series, indicating a typical potential of 400,000 volts at higher altitudes and a gradient of about 100 volts per meter at lower altitudes, while another challenges this assertion.
  • There is mention of a demonstration involving a metal bucket that illustrates the concept of charge accumulation and its potential dangers.
  • One participant notes that the lower altitude potential would not induce significant current flow, suggesting that the potential would only be relevant at the ionosphere level.
  • Another participant discusses the conditions under which model rockets are launched to induce lightning strikes, referencing specific electric field strength measurements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the voltage figures and the implications of the space elevator's resistance. There is no consensus on the accuracy of the voltage claims or the overall electrical behavior of the space elevator in relation to the ionosphere.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various sources and anecdotal evidence, but there are limitations in the clarity of the voltage figures and the assumptions underlying the discussion. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical and conceptual aspects regarding the electrical properties of the space elevator and the ionosphere.

mee
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space elevator and ionosphere

would a space elevator short circuit the 250,000 volt difference between the Earth and the ionoshere making it dangerous?
 
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I don't know about short circuit. A space elevator would have a pretty high resistance.

Do you have a source on the 250kV number? If that's the voltage, then the elevator would probably get quite hot!
 
enigma said:
I don't know about short circuit. A space elevator would have a pretty high resistance.

Do you have a source on the 250kV number? If that's the voltage, then the elevator would probably get quite hot!

I'm sorry, I don't remember the name of the show but it was on television about an hour ago. Probably on the science channel. It also was not mentioned in passing but specifically pointed out with diagrams.
 
Never heard of this. But hey, if it's true, it could be a great way to make
power ! :cool:
 
mee said:
I'm sorry, I don't remember the name of the show but it was on television about an hour ago. Probably on the science channel. It also was not mentioned in passing but specifically pointed out with diagrams.

Always remember that something appearing in print has no relevance on its being true or not.
 
LunchBox said:
Always remember that something appearing in print has no relevance on its being true or not.

It was not actually in print. Also, being on a television documentary doesn't necessarily make it suspect either.
:rolleyes:
 
linky thingy
mee said:
It was not actually in print. Also, being on a television documentary doesn't necessarily make it suspect either.
:rolleyes:

Actually it was well covered in the press one or two months ago. Maybe it was overlooked by some due to the conventions. Here’s one site linky thingy or do your own Google for "space elevator". The proponent wants to use carbon-nanotube-composite ribbon for the needed strength.



http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/space_elevator_020327-1.html
 
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enigma said:
I don't know about short circuit. A space elevator would have a pretty high resistance.

Do you have a source on the 250kV number? If that's the voltage, then the elevator would probably get quite hot!

In his Lecture series, Feynman indicates a typical value of 400,000 volts potential between sea level [in a clear atmosphere] and the region at about 50,000 meters. At lower altitudes we find a gradient of about 100 volts per meter on a clear day.

I don't think the carbon materials considered for a cable are conductive.
 
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Ivan Seeking said:
At lower altitudes we find a gradient of about 100 volts per meter on a clear day.

Whaaa?

That's not right...
 
  • #10
enigma said:
Whaaa?

That's not right...


It sure is. See Feynman. [Edit: Book II, page 9-1; sixth printing, 1977.]

There is a nice experiment to demo this fact. Fill a metal bucket with water and hang it from a tree using a good insulator. Poke a small hole in the bucket and allow the water to drip. The bucket will acquire a charge of about 100 volts per meter above ground level [in ideal conditions] as a result of the excess charge carried away by the water droplets. Note that this can result in dangerous shock depeding in part on the size of the bucket.
 
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  • #11
I should add that this lower altitude potential is not going to induce significant current flow. The ionic rain that falls in accordance with this only carries a current density of one micro-micro amp per meter squared. So the potential would only matter when you reach the ionosphere, AFAIK.

Note that the people who launch model rockets loaded with trailing wires which induce directed lightning strikes, only launch when an ambient electric field strength of about 30KV/meter is measured.
 
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