Is the UN's Control and Influence Equitably Distributed Among Nations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the distribution of control and influence within the United Nations (UN), particularly regarding whether all nations have an equitable voice and the extent of influence exerted by the Security Council members, especially the United States. Participants explore the nature of the UN as a forum for discussion, the implications of economic influence, and the political dynamics surrounding resolutions and voting practices.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the UN allows for equal discussion among countries, suggesting that the influence of Security Council nations may overshadow smaller nations.
  • One participant argues that the UN serves primarily as a discussion forum with little actionable control, implying that the lack of decisive action diminishes the relevance of control.
  • Concerns are raised about the United States' influence over UN resolutions, with references to the blocking of resolutions against Israel and the political motivations behind voting practices.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that economic power significantly influences decision-making within the UN, with the US being a dominant economic force that shapes outcomes.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the idea of outright bribery, instead framing the discussion around economically motivated decisions and the implications of economic imperialism.
  • There is a call for clarity on whether the perceived control of the UN by the US is a result of direct influence or broader economic dynamics.
  • Participants note the complexity of the relationship between the UN and its member states, particularly in the context of geopolitical events like the Iraq war.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion reflects multiple competing views regarding the nature of control and influence within the UN. Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the UN operates equitably or whether the influence of certain nations, particularly the US, undermines this equity.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific historical instances of vetoes and resolutions, indicating a reliance on particular examples to support their arguments. The discussion also highlights the political motivations behind voting behaviors, suggesting that these factors complicate the understanding of influence within the UN.

Adam
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Is the UN a forum through which countries may meet and discuss matters on equal terms, and all have a fair say? Is it a means by which the nations of the Security Council may exert diplomatic influence over the rest of the world? Does one nation currently rule through economic influence?
 
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Adam said:
Is the UN a forum through which countries may meet and discuss matters on equal terms, and all have a fair say? Is it a means by which the nations of the Security Council may exert diplomatic influence over the rest of the world? Does one nation currently rule through economic influence? [emphasis added]
IMO, the UN is a forum for discussion and little more, and as such "control" is largely irrelevant - there is little action taken, so little to control. I think that control of a conversation that doesn't lead to action is/would be largely pointless.

If you're talking about US influence over the resolutions passed (or not passed), a lot of countries including the US, stay out of a great number of the votes for political reasons. As such, majority "rules." We don't generally veto or vote against anti-Israel resolutions, for example. It seems the US is also starting to test the waters for possible action in the Sudan - action opposed by two security council members. But no-one wants to be direct because no one wants to lose anything or appear to be bullying anything. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Politics, politics, politics.
 
cool...
December 15 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 706
para 116 S/3510 Application for Membership (Japan)
December 14 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 705
para 28 S/3510 Application for Membership (Japan)
December 13 USSR 9-1-1 S/PV. 704
para 72 S/3502 Application for Membership (Spain)
December 13 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 704
para 71 S/3502 Application for Membership (Laos)
December 13 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 704
para 70 S/3502 Application for Membership (Japan)
December 13 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 704
para 69 S/3502 Application for Membership (Cambodia)
December 13 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 704
para 68 S/3502 Application for Membership (Libya)
December 13 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 704
para 67 S/3502 Application for Membership (Nepal)
December 13 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 704
para 66 S/3502 Application for Membership (Ceylon)
December 13 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 704
para 65 S/3502 Application for Membership (Finland)
December 13 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 704
para 62 S/3502 Application for Membership (Austria)
December 13 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 704
para 61 S/3502 Application for Membership (Italy)
December 13 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 704
para 59 S/3502 Application for Membership (Portugal)
December 13 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 704
para 58 S/3502 Application for Membership (Ireland)
December 13 USSR 10-1-0 S/PV. 704
para 57 S/3502 Application for Membership (Jordan)
December 13 China 8-1-2 S/PV. 704
para 54 S/3502 Application for Membership (Mongolia)
December 13 USSR 9-1-1 S/PV. 704
para 52 S/3502 Application for Membership (South Viet-nam)
December 13 USSR 9-1-1 S/PV. 704
para 51 S/3502 Application for Membership (Republic of Korea)
 
I recommend actually reading the material I supply. In the past two decades, the USA has blocked 22 UN resolutions against Israel.
 
God, not this again.
 
Adam said:
I recommend actually reading the material I supply. In the past two decades, the USA has blocked 22 UN resolutions against Israel.
ooohhh ahhhh ewwww how many has it blocked against the Palestinians?

OOooooHH wait, that's right Israel can't get resolutions through against the Palestinians...I guess we know who controls the UN!
 
While it may pass for a cheap comedy act around time for last call, it doesn't do so well in what might otherwise have been rational discussion. If you wish to see who has been the target of UN resolutions, and who has blocked them, please view the material I have provided.
 
Adam said:
I recommend actually reading the material I supply. In the past two decades, the USA has blocked 22 UN resolutions against Israel.
I didn't mean to change the subject of the thread (unless this was where you wanted it to go all along). That's 22 out of what - 100+? Not a large percentage, but regardless, not something I really care about arguing about.

In any case, Adam, what do you think about my first in that first post? What is your answer to the question you posed?
 
  • #10
Actually I would rather get back on track. I'll restate the questions.

Is the UN a forum through which countries may meet and discuss matters on equal terms, and all have a fair say? Is it a means by which the nations of the Security Council may exert diplomatic influence over the rest of the world? Does one nation currently rule through economic influence?
 
  • #11
As for my answer...

Nothing happens without money or something else changing hands somewhere. Whether in the UN chambers, an embassy lunch room, the Prime Minister's country house during a visit from another head of state, or whatever, there's money or influence or the promise of such changing hands. Overall, I think the UN is the circus part of "bread and circuses".
 
  • #12
Adam said:
Actually I would rather get back on track.
Perhaps we can deal with Israel, the US, and the UN in another thread...?
As for my answer...
Are you talking about outright bribery or just economically motivated decision-making (or even economic imperialism)?

From the original question, clearly the US has the most economic power due to the size of our economy: the EU was created for the purpose of countering that. Certainly, much of what happens in the UN often reflects these facts. But clearly we can't 'buy votes' or bully the council into passing our resolutions (at least not with any regularity). The bit resolution on Iraq before last year's war (I can't remember which one) was a notable exception where we put the full weight of our diplomatic power into getting it passed. Veto power, while we choose to use it more than others only stops other resolutions, it doesn't push our adjenda through.
 
  • #13
Adam said:
While it may pass for a cheap comedy act around time for last call, it doesn't do so well in what might otherwise have been rational discussion. If you wish to see who has been the target of UN resolutions, and who has blocked them, please view the material I have provided.

That's what I did, and somehow you gave a reply with READING in italics.
 
  • #14
Is the UN a forum through which countries may meet and discuss matters on equal terms, and all have a fair say? Is it a means by which the nations of the Security Council may exert diplomatic influence over the rest of the world? Does one nation currently rule through economic influence?

If you are saying that the UN is the US' puppet, you will then need to explain why (1) the Left calls for the UN to take the lead in Iraq, and (2) why the UN didn't support the US' invasion.

You can't have it both ways.

The United Nations is a group of nations that form policies. The US happens to be a very influential member, like China and Russia. Why not just leave it at that?
 
  • #15
russ_watters said:
Perhaps we can deal with Israel, the US, and the UN in another thread...? Are you talking about outright bribery or just economically motivated decision-making (or even economic imperialism)?
Well, one is the commonplace practice of the other. Either way, it's people being bought.

From the original question, clearly the US has the most economic power due to the size of our economy: the EU was created for the purpose of countering that. Certainly, much of what happens in the UN often reflects these facts. But clearly we can't 'buy votes' or bully the council into passing our resolutions (at least not with any regularity). The bit resolution on Iraq before last year's war (I can't remember which one) was a notable exception where we put the full weight of our diplomatic power into getting it passed. Veto power, while we choose to use it more than others only stops other resolutions, it doesn't push our adjenda through.
No, the veto doesn't push, money pushes.
 
  • #16
JohnDubYa said:
If you are saying that the UN is the US' puppet, you will then need to explain why (1) the Left calls for the UN to take the lead in Iraq, and (2) why the UN didn't support the US' invasion.
No, I'm saying that people with money have influence over people who want money.

You can't have it both ways.
Why not? Some nations were bought, some weren't. Remember the thing about Turkey? The USA offered something like 32 billion dollars. The EU (France and Germany, mostly) offered EU membership.

The United Nations is a group of nations that form policies. The US happens to be a very influential member, like China and Russia. Why not just leave it at that?
As has been stated, veto stops resolutions, it doesn't create them. Diplomacy/money outside the veto vote makes things happen.
 
  • #17
Adam, what is your point? You obviously are driving at something here. Is it the United Nations sactions against Iraq? Care to fill us in?
 

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