I just failed the Physics GRE, now what?

Jack21222

I've never gotten a 78 or below on an exam, but if I did, I would not feel like I barely passed. I would feel like I failed. But that's just me; I hold ridiculous standards for myself that I don't hold for other people.

But anyway, yes, a C is barely passing, because one grade lower, a D, is failing (for any class in your major, at least at my university).

Yeah, but you couldn't maintain a 3.0 in undergrad classes. What makes you think you can maintain a MINIMUM of 3.0 in harder classes when you couldn't do better than a 2.7 in the easier undergrad classes?

Pengwuino

By the way, when I said you should try a Masters program, it was implied that you shouldn't do one at a PhD granting university. Especially now that graduate schools are having more and more people apply due to the economy, some flat out say "do not apply if you are applying to just get a masters". You'll probably want to find one at a Masters only university.

undergrad_phy

On the first part, I guess you're right. The reasoning I was using was that a 'B' is usually defined as "above average". So if a 2.7 is "barely passing" and an 3.0 is "above average", then what is your definition for "average"? 2.85?

On the second part, I was mainly coming from the physics grad students I've talked to here at my university. They will say things like "you have to keep a 3.0, but [I]everybody[I] keeps a 3.0, and that a professor will almost never give you below a B grade. Not to say that it's easier, just that it's more of a genial relationship between you and your professors than it is in the undergraduate world, and they're more willing to work with you before just handing you a grade. I may be wrong, and I'm certain it has to be different from institution to institution.

Lastly, I'm impressed by the fact that you've never made a 78 or below on a test, but this alone signifies to me that you probably weren't worried about "safety" schools when you were applying to grad school. I mean, you were probably applying to the top schools in your field, with a few thrown in there that weren't ranked just in case, or something, right? Does this mean that you've talked to others who were less prepared than yourself about their application experiences or what?

Pengwuino

Remember, you've probably grown up in a society where "C" is passing and that passing is... well, acceptable. In Physics, not to sound too elitist, but we like to think we're the above average students. Then to be a graduate student, you want to be above average of the above average students!

Getting a phd in physics is probably one of the hardest academic routes there is so don't be surprised if you run into people who think anything but an A is unacceptable.

Dickfore

Lol, you placed Tufts and BU as "safety cards".

Jack21222

I'm only a 3rd year undergrad, I'm in the process of researching grad schools now. This time next year, I'll be actually applying. I fully expect to get below a 78 at some point, and when I do, I'll be very upset with myself.

So, my only experience with grad school applications is reading admissions pages and talking to classmates who are applying now. But from that, I can tell you that every one of the 20+ "application requirements" pages I've seen required a minimum 3.0 for your application to be even considered. This includes so-called "safety schools."

Here's an example. One of my "safety schools" is UMBC. This is their admissions FAQ webpage:

http://physics.umbc.edu/grad/faqs.php

Emphasis mine. Your low GPA is not compensated by high GRE scores. In fact, it's amplified by low GRE scores.

At my liberal arts state school, they have a "Professional Science Master's" program. It's a very small program and they're just starting up. Here's their admissions requirement for a terminal master's program.

http://grad.towson.edu/program/maste...ar-apph-ms.asp

Your application would be tossed in the trash, even for provisional admission to this tiny, no-name school's M.S. program.

It's going to be very difficult for you to get admitted into even a masters program, and even if you do get admitted, based on what you've told us so far, I don't think it's a good fit for you. You should probably just look into industry and start making money.

undergrad_phy

Pengwuino, that's true and I guess I bring that upon myself.

Jack, I appreciate your input, but I've looked at Towson's admissions page before and while they do have concrete requirements, another 30 schools that I've looked at don't.

Furthermore, I can't see that you're qualified for saying my application would be "tossed in the trash" because you've looked at 20 websites and you think it's hard to get into grad school and your buddies agree with you. The logic you're using when referencing your own boldface quote isn't even really 100% accurate; what I mean is that it seems to me the excerpt is alluding to possible low GPA compensation by high GRE scores OR relevant research experience, and since I have the research experience, it seems as though I would be a candidate.

So while I appreciate your thoughts, there's no need to burn me down, because you're speaking to me from a level of knowledge about graduate school that I was at two years ago.

Jack21222

Well, let us know how it turns out for you, I guess.

undergrad_phy

Will do.

deluks917

Can you stay at your university a year longer? If you stayed on and did well (3.5+ really like 3.8) in an extra year of math/physics courses you could show your potential to dop well. This would also give you time to work on raising your PGRE (a 2% does not look try to get to 60%).

Shackleford

That's not a bad idea. A few "A"s or even "A-"s would probably get that 2.7 to a 3.0. But they can't be easy classes. You'd have to take difficult classes.

symbolipoint

Pengwuino's comments caught my attention. How could someone who is uncompetetive for a PhD program be any more acceptable for a Master's Degree program? The two kinds of programs both are graduate programs or advanced degree programs. What is the logic at work about these two different graduate or advanced degree programs? Both of them would require a few additional courses; and both would require some independent knowledge investigation or research.

twofish-quant

Also there is a big difference between test scores and grades. There are tests in which you can make a 65/100 on the test and get an A. Something that worries me a little is the statement that you've never made below a 78 on a test. The grading policy in some of the physics programs is to give you killer tests in which you are expected to make a very low score, with the notion that if you are given killer test after killer test that you will do well on the PGRE's.

twofish-quant

That's not the case. Graduate-level classes are more intense than undergraduate courses. Once you get out of the first two years of grad school, you the get into research.

The problem is that in order to do research you have to have literacy in the research, and have both low GPA's and GRE's will hurt you a lot here. If you really want to go to physics grad school, you really should take another year.

It doesn't work that way. There really isn't a huge difference in quality between the "big name" physics schools and the "no name" physics schools.

Pengwuino

Example: California

The UC's get most of the better students, they pretty much all have PhDs in physics. The CSU system, however, does not have any universities that grant PhDs and infact, it is the second tier school system. Plain and simple. I go to a CSU and we have someone in our masters program that actually got a 0% on his physics GRE. We have people come in with 2.5 GPAs. Some universities just aren't research universities where they have entire fractions of their department solely running research labs.

Jack21222

Well, one of my professors gives more partial credit than I would. When I looked over the last Classical Mechanics exam, I would have given myself about a 70, but the professor gave me an 83 with generous partial credit. Highest grade in the class was 84, median was 67. The 83 was considered an A.

So, there's a little of what you talk about in my school, but not to the extent a 65 is an A. I kinda wish we did have exams like that, though.

Jack21222

Apparently, you didn't bother looking at the admissions requirements to the "safety" schools that you posted. Lets go down the list one by one, shall we?

LSU: http://www.phys.lsu.edu/newwebsite/g...html#question7

University of South Carolina: There is no admissions requirements information on their website, but the other science and engineering programs require a 3.0. I'd be surprised if the physics program had lower standards than the others.

University of Alabama: http://physics.ua.edu/grad/UA_AIP_profile.pdf

Miami University: http://www.muphysics.org/prospective...n-requirements

I've got to run to class now, I'll finish doing your grad school research for you later.