Why the bias against materialism?

Iacchus32

Yeah, what do you say we get our minds together and comtemplate on it! [;)]

Les Sleeth

Well said Fliption. I avoid the word "higher" so I don't make anyone think there is "lower," but essentially I do see a true inner practice as evolving one's consciousness. Hey, maybe with that the evolution process itself evolves!

And yes, I really do see it as removing filters in a sense because if you can look at things without your mind already going in a certain direction, then it is going to reflect more accurately.

Iacchus32

Yes, but if we do have such a capacity, why do we have this means at our disposal? And, why is it that for some reason, the whole thing has been handed down in the name of God? Both of which go back a long ways by the way ...

Therefore, why would it be so wrong to consider the possibility that this might be the means by which to make the "God connection?" It only seems like the "next logical" thing to do. [;)]

Les Sleeth

Now that we've made up [:D] I hate risk spoiling it but I suppose I should be totally accurate.

When I said before that I still don't know what the inner experience is of, but that I have some strong opinions, I do feel this bright pulse I spoke of inside is not material or derived from materiality. I still do not know what it is except that it seems powerful, and gets me high when I am able to join with it.

I realize there are ways one could explain the experience by way of our physiology. Mine is just an impression, so it's not going to stand up in court even though it is an impression left from many years of practice. Yet I don't really care if I understand it thoroughly or not, it has been a unfailing friend whatever it is.

Fliption

yeah I cringed a bit on the word "higher" my self. Perhaps "more evolved" is better?

Zero

Because who would believe it if you told the truth, that it was handed down by your great-uncle Skip?

Iacchus32

Yeah, a miraculous thing indeed, how the mind works! Whereas what would we be, without being conscious?

Thus when you realize it, and get right down to it, this all we really have. Hmm ... Maybe consciousness is the source of gravity? -- at least to "our beings" anyway.

Zero

LOL, now you are just making stuff up!!

Iacchus32

While I suppose meditation could just be a means by which to access the dopamine in the brain? In which case that would be the "natural" cause and effect of the whole thing now wouldn't it? [;)]

Hmm ... even so, maybe they could use meditation as a means to treat/prevent Parkinson's disease?

Pyrite

So really the whole argument was just a misunderstanding. So many things end that way.

Of course, the Idea that any scientifically minded person on this thread is avoiding, (and that I suppose i can say without ridicule, since I don't necessarily believe in it.) is that it may infact be the human soul, and that what one percieves as "moving with the pulse" is actually connecting with it, which brings us closer to who we are.

(This is, of course, speculation. I don't plan on starting a new religion, despite the tax benifits.)

Iacchus32

Yes, and if science were somehow in its "speculative nature" of objectivity able to determine this, just think of all the recalculations that would have to be made! [;)]

Zero

We aren't avoiding it, we're still waiting for some sort of EVIDENCE!


You didn't read the whole thread, did you?

Pyrite

this post was a mistake. sorry.

Zero

LOL

Pyrite

I was posting in two forums, and i posted the one for the other forum here.

anyway, This is the second time i've worked so hard to read an entire thread just to be accused of having not read it. yes, I read all 10 pages. It took a half a day.

anyway... yeah.

this kind of statement is part of the bias against materialists. It's not just that you wont believe that which isn't proven to you, you don't even bother to discuss it. I noticed that not even the person writing about it had dared to say that this might be it (make no mistake, I am not saying that it is.)

Another God

Science does explore meditation.

Part of my job in working in the UNSW Biomedical library, is photocopying articles for students studying off campus (honours, PHD sort of students). And one of those students is quite obviously studying the effects of meditation (or something), because each month I probably photocopy about 30 or 40 articles on Meditation. This has been happening for about 8 months now. There is TONS of research on Meditation.

But hmm...I think I have a contention with your earlier post... I'll come back to that when I have finished reading all of the posts.

Another God

I respect you for having avoided saying it, and now expressing it as an 'opinion' etc, but I do just want to take this moment to observe that this is exactly the sort of thing that Zero and myself (as well sa many others) get annoyed at with the anti-materialists...

When they do something like what you do, and then go about claiming that this stands as proof of a soul. Or even evidence. This doesn't even stand as evidence in my mind, and I would maintain that stance even if I was to experience it myself (because of the pure subjective nature of it) (although, hmmm....good counter point right about here would be: Of course the soul is purely subjective.)(But I don't like that option. I probably have a reason for not liking it which isn't detrimental to the second argument you presented, but I can't be bothered thinking of it right now...)