Volume of a parallelepiped's sign

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the sign of the volume of a parallelepiped formed by three vectors A, B, and C, as well as verifying a geometric identity involving these vectors. The scope includes geometric reasoning and algebraic approaches to establish relationships between the vectors and their associated angles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a problem involving the three-product of vectors A, B, and C, asserting that it represents the volume of a parallelepiped with a sign determined by the orientation of the vectors.
  • The same participant successfully proves a geometric identity, A.(B x C) = (A x B).C, but struggles to establish the sign relationship between the two sides of the identity.
  • The participant notes that the angles involved in the identity lead to a situation where sine values are positive, while cosine values may introduce negative signs, creating confusion about the overall sign.
  • Another participant suggests that if geometric intuition fails, an algebraic proof might be a viable alternative, potentially leading to a clearer geometric argument.
  • A different participant hints at the possibility of a simpler method to prove the relationship without relying on the previously established result.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of using the established result for the proof, indicating that multiple approaches may exist. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method to demonstrate the sign of the volume.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the relationship between the angles involved or the implications for the sign of the volume. There are also unresolved assumptions regarding the geometric interpretations of the angles and their relationships.

quasar987
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I have this problem that reads

a) Prove that the three-product (A.(B x C)) of the vectors A, B and C where A, B and C are not lying in a single plane, is the volume of the parallelepiped whose edges are A, B and C with positive or negative sign according to wheter a right-hand screw rotated from A toward B would advance along C in the positive or negative direction.

With some effort, I did that.

b) Use this result to prove the following identity geometrically: A.(B x C) = (A x B).C. Verify that the right and left members of the identity are equal in sign as well as in magnitude.

I proved the identity geometrically and then I argued that both members were the same in magnitude because geometrically they both represented by parallelepiped of equal edged and all parallelepiped of equal edges have equal volume, hence...etc.

But the sign part, I can't find the trick.

The identity gives |ABCsin(x)cos(y)| = |ABCsin(w)cos(z)| where x is the angle between B and C, y the angle between A and B x C, w the angle between A and B and z the angle between C and A x B.

All of these angles are between 0 and 180°, which means sin(x) and sin(w) are always positive and the negative sign comes from y and z being between 90° and 180°.

If I could show that when one angle on the cos is between 90° and 180°, so is the other it would be done, but I can't find a relationship between any of the 4 above angles except that sin(x)|cos(y)| = sin(w)|cos(z)|.


If you have any idea, let me know. Big thanks!
 
Last edited:
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If your geometrical intuition fails, you can fall back on proving this relation algebraically.
(If you do this, it might spur you on to find a correct geometric argument!)
 
Is it necessary to use the above result ...
there is an easier without using the above result ...

-- AI
 
Last edited:
Say that again?
 

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