View Poll Results: Multiple poll: Check all you agree.  
Logarithms of lepton mass quotients should be pursued.  24  27.91%  
Alpha calculation from serial expansion should be pursued  22  25.58%  
We should look for more empirical relationships  26  30.23%  
Pythagorean triples approach should be pursued.  21  24.42%  
Quotients from distance radiuses should be investigated  16  18.60%  
The estimate of magnetic anomalous moment should be investigated.  26  30.23%  
The estimate of Weinberg angle should be investigated.  21  24.42%  
Jay R. Yabon theory should be investigate.  16  18.60%  
I support the efforts in this thread.  47  54.65%  
I think the effort in this thread is not worthwhile.  30  34.88%  
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll 
Register to reply 
All the lepton masses from G, pi, e 
Share this thread: 
#451
Jan709, 06:25 PM

Sci Advisor
HW Helper
P: 1,204

I'm preparing a submission for Phys Math Central on the subject of Koide's mass formulas for the hadrons. I'm supposed to have something ready by January 10th. The latest cut is here: http://www.brannenworks.com/koidehadrons.pdf Carl 


#452
Jan709, 06:38 PM

P: 2,258

I was using this formula:
a mass of zero can be added to numerator and denominator without changing anything. 


#453
Jan809, 02:01 AM

PF Gold
P: 2,893

I would use some more group notation. Instead of your 6x6=36, I'd vote by 6 x bar6 = sum of irreps. Second, besides to the "extraordinary" case you put, I'd include more of the "Ordinary" case, meaning the original argument of Koide about his formula for composite particles, along the lines of the original PhysRev. 


#454
Jan809, 03:21 AM

P: 2,258

there are obviously an infinite number of formulas relating the masses of the electron muon and tauon. the beauty of the koide formula is its simplicity and elegance. especially the fact that Q=2/3 which is exactly halfway between the upper and lower limits of 1 and 1/3.
as wikipedia puts it: 


#455
Jan1109, 06:19 PM

Sci Advisor
HW Helper
P: 1,204

[tex](3+\bar{3})\times (3+\bar{3})[/tex] i.e. (R+G+B+/R+/G+/B)^2, and I guess the symmetry would be, (hems and haws whilst trying to recall Georgi), uh, let's see, maybe [tex](3+\bar{3})\times (3+\bar{3}) = 8+\bar{8}+6+\bar{6}+3+\bar{3}+1+\bar{1}[/tex]? Yes, as usual, your comment is brilliant and I will incorporate it. In a certain sense, what I'm doing is taking the [tex]3\times \bar{3} = 8+1[/tex] definition of gluons and claiming that I can compute in qubits with it using 3x3 matrices. [If you can read this, then PhysicsForums let me edit out a silly comment about 6+3bar.] Because both can be faithfully represented by 3x3 complex matrix addition and multiplication. From the symmetry point of view, it's a matter of selecting a certain ratio of the coupling constants. I think I should be ready to release a first cut in a few days. It still doesn't have "results" and the abstract is obsolete. But I've redone the results section to be make an argument that hangs together better. 


#456
Jan1309, 07:20 PM

Sci Advisor
HW Helper
P: 1,204

Okay, I've got this thing past the first cut. It is time to ask for advice and for people to point out obvious problems etc.
http://www.brannenworks.com/koidehadrons.pdf 


#457
Jan2009, 04:08 PM

Sci Advisor
HW Helper
P: 1,204

The most recent arXiv included a hepth article that I thought was pretty cute.
Symmetries of Nonrelativistic Phase Space and the Structure of QuarkLepton Generation Piotr Zenczykowski. According to the Hamiltonian formalism, nonrelativistic phase space may be considered as an arena of physics, with momentum and position treated as independent variables. Invariance of x^2+p^2 constitutes then a natural generalization of ordinary rotational invariance. We consider Diraclike linearization of this form, with position and momentum satisfying standard commutation relations. This leads to the identification of a quantumlevel structure from which some phase space properties might emerge. Genuine rotations and reflections in phase space are tied to the existence of new quantum numbers, unrelated to ordinary 3D space. Their properties allow their identification with the internal quantum numbers characterising the structure of a single quarklepton generation in the Standard Model. In particular, the algebraic structure of the HarariShupe preon model of fundamental particles is reproduced exactly and without invoking any subparticles. Analysis of the Clifford algebra of nonrelativistic phase space singles out an element which might be associated with the concept of lepton mass. This element is transformed into a corresponding element for a single coloured quark, leading to a generalization of the concept of mass and a different starting point for the discussion of quark unobservability. http://arxiv.org/abs/0901.2896 


#458
Jan2609, 05:51 PM

PF Gold
P: 2,893

A tradition in this thread is to put both the exact quotient between left and right sides of the equality AND the onesigma error of this quotient. In this way it is clear how much we can expect the fit to change. In any case, according current pdg data: mn − mp = 1.2933317 ± 0.0000005 MeV Me= 0.510998910 ± 0.000000013 MeV thus (mnmp)/me=2.530987199 ± .000001 MeV and (mnmp)/me :: ln(4*pi) = 0.999 985 36 ± 0.000 000 4 As Hans says, the important point is that the agreement is of 99.998 5 %. The onesigma adjustment is not important because the explerimental precision is a lot better. But this thread stresses that reaching the empirical bar of 99.99% in a simple formula in not easy. 


#459
Feb209, 01:56 AM

Sci Advisor
HW Helper
P: 1,204

Walter Smilga has rewritten his justification of Wyler's approximation of the fine structure constant in a nice clean article:
Probing the mathematical nature of the photon field Walter Smilga The mathematical content of the interaction term of quantum electrodynamics is examined under the following assumption: It is presumed that the apparent degreesoffreedom of the photon field reflect the kinematical degreesoffreedom of the twoparticle state space of massive fermions, rather than independent degreesoffreedom of the photon field. This assumption is verified by reproducing the numerical value of the finestructure constant. http://arxiv.org/abs/0901.4917 Of course I see everything through the lens of what I'm doing. So I see the above as evidence that in understanding the color force, one should do something similar with gluons. My recent paper analyzes the mesons in terms of what happens to the quarks, pretty much ignoring the gluons. And it also finds that things turn out simpler than expected. 


#460
Mar509, 01:24 PM

P: 22



#461
Mar509, 01:29 PM

P: 22



#462
Mar509, 01:31 PM

P: 22

Hola



#463
Mar509, 01:32 PM

P: 22

Hola



#464
Mar509, 01:34 PM

P: 22

Hola



#465
Mar509, 01:36 PM

P: 22

Hola



#466
Mar509, 01:36 PM

P: 22

Hola



#467
Mar509, 01:39 PM

P: 22

Hola



#468
Mar509, 01:43 PM

P: 22




Register to reply 
Related Discussions  
Lepton clouds  General Physics  3 