will the new ITER fusion reactor actually work?

Stanley514

I`ve read something that
total energy input to total
energy output suppose to
be close to 1:1 in ITER if
you count looses anywhere
in the system.But in any case
tokamaks similar to ITER are
going to be too expensive to
be competetive with most of
other energy sources.What is
concerning to fusion there is
proposition in Europe to build
HiPER for $ 100 mln.It is going
to be 10 times cheaper tnan
ITER.But still there is to many
problems and expenses.Just
uneconomical for nearest decades.

etudiant

ITER is not a prototype, at best it is a proof of principle installation, a little like Mike was the US hydrogen bomb demonstrator, an installation, not a workable product.
If ITER works reasonably well, there will be lots of effort spent to make useful reactors using the tokamak design. Imho, none of them has a prayer of coming close to the economics of current LWRs, despite the handicaps those installations bear.
Maybe a conspiracy to make us accept solar power at $1/kw ;)

Drakkith

Keep in mind that our knowledge of the way plasma behaves in a device such as a tokamak is still increasing. ITER will only increase that knowledge and hopefully let us build workable fusion power plants.

Ryan_m_b

IIRC the plan is for ITER to be suceeded by a project called DEMO in which a reactor capable of producing continuous electrical power will be built which will then lead on to the next project called PROTO which will be a prototype commercial nuclear fusion reactor.

In other words if all goes to plan ITER is the grandma of the first prototype.

Drakkith

The key thing to remember for ITER is that it is the next step in a long line of research into fusion power. We've been trying to get fusion power to work for about 60 years. This may seem like it is a futile effort but the key is that we ARE making progress. The past half century has driven fusion reactors closer and closer to breakeven. It's a long slow process, but we are getting there.

tentpole

I am pretty convinced that the humungous Tokamak that ITER is going to develop will work. The .pdf posted earlier - thanks Phyzguy - shows the logarithmic increase in plasma confinement time with size. "Bigger is better" is the name of the game.
If the physics works the engineering can be sorted out.
The old adage "... the difficult we do now , the impossible takes a bit longer..." applies.
The skepticism around the Manhattan project prevailed profusely before it was shown that nuclear fission works, maybe this is a re-run of a similar scenario
My biggest concern is around the magnetic flux which needs to be shielded to protect personnel working close to the Tokamak. TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation) is a fact and ITER could have a group of mad scientists running around the site needing to be confined.

Drakkith

I don't believe any reactors that use magnetic confinement have rapidly changing magnetic fields capable of something like this. But I could be wrong.

Ryan_m_b

And (hopefully) if we do get to the stage where we can start building commercial nuclear fusion reactors we can then get stuck into the more promising R&D of aneutronic fusion.

Cosmos2001

I think the tokamak-based design ITER will hardly meet the necessary conditions to fuse deuterium and tritium. I believe the best option for aneutronic fusion still is electrostatic acceleration because it is much more energy-efficient than the tokamak magnetic compression, and some electrostatic fusion machine already has its conceptual break-even scheme for direct electric power production with net energy gain predictable by simple calculations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro5-QYqqxzM

cherokee2277

I heard that ITER will have to be carefull not to have too many disruptions because that type of current can wreck the tiles and vessel and it might not be reusable? is this true?

Astronuc

I think that may be a reference to 'thermal shock' and 'thermal fatigue'. I'm not sure of the magnitude of temperature variation, but rapid heating and cooling can produce thermally-induced stresses that could nucleate and propagate cracks in ceramic (or otherwise brittle) material.

Thermal fatigue is certainly a concern.

cherokee2277

I was actually thinking about what happens when the actual magnetic boundary layer and fusion torroidal shape drops down and touches the wall or lower tooling. A large current will run out of the plasma and thru the vessel and tiles. The current moving against a magnetic field will create a large force that can damage tooling and tiles?