How Do Alpha Particles Compare to Other Fully Ionized Atoms?

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    Alpha Particles
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the comparison of alpha particles to other fully ionized atoms, exploring the conditions under which atoms can be stripped of their electrons, their stability, and the environments in which these phenomena occur. The scope includes theoretical considerations, practical applications, and experimental contexts related to ionization.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire whether atoms other than helium can be completely stripped of electrons and if such ions can be isolated and produced as a stream.
  • It is suggested that temperature and gas density are significant factors in the ionization process, with the center of the sun being a practical example where everything is completely ionized.
  • Hydrogen atoms are noted to often be stripped of their electrons, which is a common method for isolating protons.
  • One participant mentions that alpha particles can travel only a few centimeters in air before ionizing, while another corrects this to a few millimeters.
  • There is a claim that fully ionized atoms, such as C +12, Fe +26, or U +92, can be encountered frequently in cosmic rays and can be produced in particle accelerators.
  • A link to a report on Electron Cyclotron Resonance (ECR) ion sources is provided, which discusses the production of high charge state ions, including fully ionized Argon and partially ionized Calcium.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that temperature and pressure are critical factors in the ionization of atoms, and there is acknowledgment that fully ionized atoms can be produced in certain environments. However, there is no consensus on the specifics of stability comparisons between alpha particles and other fully ionized atoms, nor on the exact distances alpha particles can travel before ionizing.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about environmental conditions, such as temperature and pressure, which may not be universally applicable. The discussion also touches on the limitations of current knowledge regarding the stability and behavior of various fully ionized atoms.

Gonzolo
1. Can any other atom besides helium be completely stripped of all its electrons? Are these ever encontered? Can they (C +12, or Fe +26, or U +92 etc.) be isolated and produced as a stream? How do these compare (stability) to alpha particles?

2. As for alpha particles themselves, how long do they last before becoming helium? There must be some half-life related to this and that would depend on local environment, especially the pressure of the gas in which it resides. Surely, an alpha particle would last longer in a vacuum than it would in 1 atm.
 
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A major factor in stripping electrons is the temperature. It is practical problem. For example at the center of the sun everything is completely ionized. Also gas density does play a role, as you indicated. In outer space electrons are sparse.
 
Hydrogen atoms are often stripped of their electron, its usually how we isolate a proton for use. Basis and Acids work on the principal of the Ionisation of A hydrogen atom.

I couldn't tell you about the others... But yes i have heard that everything is completely ionised at the centre of a star. So id agree with that

An alpha particle will only last going through a few mm of air before ionising... and into solid mattar about [tex]~10^-2mm[/tex]
 
sorry, that was a few cm in air
 
Gonzolo said:
1. Can any other atom besides helium be completely stripped of all its electrons? Are these ever encontered? Can they (C +12, or Fe +26, or U +92 etc.) be isolated and produced as a stream? How do these compare (stability) to alpha particles?
As mathman said, yes - it depends upon things like temperature and pressure. These are encountered 'all the time' (e.g. in cosmic rays), and yes, they can be 'isolated and produced as a stream' (e.g. in many particle accelerators around the world; in fact, that's how the few super-heavy elements have been produced!)
 
KaneOris said:
[tex]~10^-2m[/tex]

Thanks, but I would also be interested in where the number comes from and perhaps the function depth(pressure, type of gas, etc.) or a table if anything of the sort is available.
 
Here is a link to an old report on Electron Cyclotron Resonance (ECR) ion sources. These are used to produce high charge state ions for accelerators like cyclotrons or linacs.
http://ecrgroup.lbl.gov/papers_pdf/rsi00625.pdf
Take a look at Table 1. You can see that they managed to fully ionize Argon, and produced a small current of Ca +19 (all but one electron gone.) I think that newer ECRISes can remove more than half the electrons for a Uranium ion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks everybody.
 

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