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Christian medical plans exempted from health law

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Evo
#1
Feb26-11, 08:59 PM
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I guess their way to wriggle out of the law is by claiming that they are a "health cost sharing" plan instead of calling themselves "insurance".

The brain tumor came back. An ugly mass growing in plain view threatened Karen Niles' remaining eye. She needed more surgery.

This time, however, her medical plan wouldn't pay.

It sounds like one of those insurance "horror stories" that President Barack Obama hammered home during the fierce debate to pass his health care overhaul. Except Niles' plan ended up as the beneficiary of a rare exemption to the new law — a waiver highlighted in the plan's promotional materials.

The plan didn't come from an insurer, but from a religious "health care sharing ministry." Consumer advocates call them a gamble.

These plans successfully lobbied Democratic lawmakers to free their members from the requirement that everyone in the country have health insurance.
The downside? They don't have to pay if you need medical help.

"There is no promise or certainty this sharing program will pay for health care expenses," he said.

If Medi-Share is an insurance alternative, its guidelines carry an eye-catching disclaimer:

"The payment of your medical bills through Medi-Share or otherwise is not guaranteed in any fashion." Members remain solely responsible for payment.
Interesting read.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110226/...lzdGlhbm1lZA--
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Al68
#2
Feb26-11, 09:21 PM
P: 801
Quote Quote by Evo View Post
I guess their way to wriggle out of the law by claiming that they are a "health cost sharing" plan instead of calling themselves "insurance".
Does this mean if my current medical insurance policy just stops using the word "insurance", it won't be outlawed? And I won't have to pay the tax penalty after all?

Yippee!!!!
nismaratwork
#3
Feb26-11, 09:26 PM
P: 2,284


I guess Christians really are different. "J-Date"... "Christian Mingle". Heh... this is such a bad idea... the IRS is going to hound them forever.

Evo
#4
Feb26-11, 09:29 PM
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Christian medical plans exempted from health law

Quote Quote by Al68 View Post
Does this mean if my current medical insurance policy just stops using the word "insurance", it won't be outlawed? And I won't have to pay the tax penalty after all?

Yippee!!!!
Apparently. Since they allow it for Christians, they have to allow any group to do this, they are not regulated either.
nismaratwork
#5
Feb26-11, 09:31 PM
P: 2,284
Quote Quote by Evo View Post
Apparently, that and you buy off a few key politicians. If they allow it for Chrisitians, they have to allow any group to do this, they are not regulated either.
Well... I guess it's time to get baptized... errrr... are these the baptizing types?
Containment
#6
Feb26-11, 09:32 PM
P: 18
Is there a max to how much coverage or what not?
nismaratwork
#7
Feb26-11, 09:33 PM
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Quote Quote by Containment View Post
Is there a max to how much coverage or what not?
God Only Really Knows.
Al68
#8
Feb26-11, 09:42 PM
P: 801
Seriously, the law exempts any "recognized" religious group that opposes it. How is this any different from the Amish, etc. being exempted?

As far as this group offering a (non-Obamacare approved) health plan with no promise to pay, they can't legally offer a promise to pay in exchange for a premium, since that would be insurance. Duh!

My beef with it that those of us that don't want to join such a group are penalized. Doubly so, since in addition to the penalty, basic medical insurance will be illegal.
nismaratwork
#9
Feb26-11, 09:44 PM
P: 2,284
Quote Quote by Containment View Post
Is there a max to how much coverage or what not?
Quote Quote by Al68 View Post
Seriously, the law exempts any "recognized" religious group that opposes it. How is this any different from the Amish, etc. being exempted?

As far as this group offering a (non-Obamacare approved) health plan with no promise to pay, they can't legally offer a promise to pay in exchange for a premium, since that would be insurance. Duh!

My beef with it that those of us that don't want to join such a group are penalized. Doubly so, since in addition to the penalty, basic medical insurance will be illegal.
I'd say, that which is not a nail, the Amish, and anyone else using religion in this fashion. If you want to live in your own little world, move to your own little world in a country that gives a rat's behind.
Al68
#10
Feb26-11, 11:12 PM
P: 801
Quote Quote by nismaratwork View Post
I'd say, that which is not a nail, the Amish, and anyone else using religion in this fashion. If you want to live in your own little world, move to your own little world in a country that gives a rat's behind.
What in the world does that mean? What is "not a nail"?

If you're referring to the "if you don't like it, just leave" mentality, I would suggest it applies more appropriately in the U.S. to those who "don't like" liberty, instead of those who do.

It especially applies to those who refuse to peacefully co-exist with others, not those of us who demand nothing more.
Proton Soup
#11
Feb26-11, 11:14 PM
P: 1,070
Quote Quote by nismaratwork View Post
I'd say, that which is not a nail, the Amish, and anyone else using religion in this fashion. If you want to live in your own little world, move to your own little world in a country that gives a rat's behind.
why do you think the amish, mennonites, et al. came here in the first place?
Al68
#12
Feb26-11, 11:34 PM
P: 801
Quote Quote by Proton Soup View Post
why do you think the amish, mennonites, et al. came here in the first place?
They came here to escape oppression, because the U.S. was the last bastion of freedom. They came here to live in peace.

The U.S. is historically the place to go to, not run from, to avoid having to live according to government decree.

That's what bothers me about people trying to use force against others to get their way. They are the ones using force to prevent peaceful co-existence. They are the ones destroying the last bastion of freedom, in order to make the U.S. more like the countries they wish they lived, but won't trouble themselves to go to.

They are the ones who should be leaving if they oppose peaceful co-existence.
nismaratwork
#13
Feb27-11, 05:59 AM
P: 2,284
Quote Quote by Proton Soup View Post
why do you think the amish, mennonites, et al. came here in the first place?
Times change.

edit: Oh yes, and a country has been born, had a civil war, and evolved... to be more specific. I wouldn't take kindly to Puritans either... as their children apparently did not.
nismaratwork
#14
Feb27-11, 06:00 AM
P: 2,284
Quote Quote by Al68 View Post
What in the world does that mean? What is "not a nail"?

If you're referring to the "if you don't like it, just leave" mentality, I would suggest it applies more appropriately in the U.S. to those who "don't like" liberty, instead of those who do.

It especially applies to those who refuse to peacefully co-exist with others, not those of us who demand nothing more.
I would say that this abuse of law is more than peaceful co-existance. I'd also look past the pastries, and look at rates of abuse and other lovely aspects of Amish life for example.

I'd add... what makes a plan Christian to begin with?
Al68
#15
Feb27-11, 06:14 AM
P: 801
Quote Quote by nismaratwork View Post
I would say that this abuse of law is more than peaceful co-existance.
And you'd be factually wrong. Unless you can explain how being exempted from this law not only constitutes an "abuse of law", but is not peaceful.

Even claiming that a direct violation of this law is not peaceful would be objectively false.

Claiming something is "more than peaceful co-existence" doesn't make it true, or change reality.
nismaratwork
#16
Feb27-11, 06:22 AM
P: 2,284
Quote Quote by Al68 View Post
And you'd be factually wrong. Unless you can explain how being exempted from this law not only constitutes an "abuse of law", but is not peaceful.

Even claiming that a direct violation of this law is not peaceful would be objectively false.

Claiming something is "more than peaceful co-existence" doesn't make it true, or change reality.
We need to get into how "white collar" crime effects people at a distance, in very tangible ways? These are people living in a fantasy, and we're helping to maintain that bubble. It may not be firing a gun, but when you subvert the law in this country, it's an assault.

I'll ask again, what makes a Christian Medical plan Christian? I'd add, again, that the Amish have a rich history of being left alone, and the result are disproportionate rates of abuse and more.
Al68
#17
Feb27-11, 06:42 AM
P: 801
Quote Quote by nismaratwork View Post
We need to get into how "white collar" crime effects people at a distance, in very tangible ways? These are people living in a fantasy, and we're helping to maintain that bubble. It may not be firing a gun, but when you subvert the law in this country, it's an assault.

I'll ask again, what makes a Christian Medical plan Christian? I'd add, again, that the Amish have a rich history of being left alone, and the result are disproportionate rates of abuse and more.
You can get into all that all you want, but it doesn't make peaceful acts not peaceful. It certainly doesn't make declining to participate in Obamacare a non-peaceful act.

And nothing in this thread has anything to do with any crime, "white collar" or not. Do you now want to refer to legal acts as crimes? "Subverting the law"?

And using the word "assault" to refer to the act of literally doing nothing is just silly.

Sounds like this attempt to justify government oppression is not only logically flawed, full of red herrings, absurd assertions, and misused words, but getting very desperate.
nismaratwork
#18
Feb27-11, 08:42 AM
P: 2,284
Quote Quote by Al68 View Post
You can get into all that all you want, but it doesn't make peaceful acts not peaceful. It certainly doesn't make declining to participate in Obamacare a non-peaceful act.

And nothing in this thread has anything to do with any crime, "white collar" or not. Do you now want to refer to legal acts as crimes? "Subverting the law"?

And using the word "assault" to refer to the act of literally doing nothing is just silly.

Sounds like this attempt to justify government oppression is not only logically flawed, full of red herrings, absurd assertions, and misused words, but getting very desperate.
So you're saying that I sound like you in the left-wing threads?

I get it Al, we see the world very differently, but you're ignoring substance and a question I've asked twice in favor of posturing. For a third time:

What makes a Christian Medical plan Christian?

How do you justify insular communities, or theocracies like Utah under the US constitution that you seem to love so dearly? I can think of little that is LESS American.

edit: Here is a tangible example of what you get when you create such communities, and pretend that you're doing them a favor: http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/J...i_janfeb05.msp
You think we're doing ourselves any favors by creating religious and cultural rifts down to health insurance?... why?! Because you don't like the bill, and you support any "win" against it you see?


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