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Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants

by gmax137
Tags: earthquake, japan, nuclear
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zapperzero
#5491
May1-11, 03:23 AM
P: 1,042
Quote Quote by georgiworld View Post
Interesting video showing external situation around the reactors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEUh7_1i_dg
Same video as posted by me a couple pages back.

That being said, some effort to collate all the released media files and stick them on a timeline would surely be a lot of help for armchair analysts like us. Is there such a project? If not, maybe we could set it up ourselves?
zapperzero
#5492
May1-11, 03:46 AM
P: 1,042
Quote Quote by triumph61 View Post
(2) change the concentration of 9 × fuel gadolinia 9 (B type) * 1 × 9 fuel the adoption of the traditional 9 (B type), as well as reduce the concentration of a substance Gadolinia reaction to the early to mid-fuels plant operation High fuel 9 × 9 (B type)
And then the body uses 96.

9 or more * Change Fuel concentration 1 × gadolinia 9 (B type)
Gadolinium (Gd) oxide compounds gadolinia (Gd2O3) concentration of
Uranium fuel currently being used (concentration gadolinia: about 3.0 to about 5.0wt%) have higher fuel (gadolinia concentration: about 5.0 to about 7.0wt%).
Gadolinia high neutron absorption capacity, but using a fuel containing uranium Gadolinia traditionally used by the high concentration of uranium Gadolinia, the degree of combustion reaction in the reactor plant operation has the effect easier to control than the control.
Wait, what?Are they talking about changing some of the fuel? To one with a higher gadolinia (gadolinium oxide) content? Where's a nuclear engineer when you need one? Or a Japanese translator?

Areva reprocesses fuel and makes sintered gadolinium oxide-uranium oxide fuel pellets. Are they involved in the cleanup because they were involved in the fueling?
Uagrepus
#5493
May1-11, 03:59 AM
P: 22
Quote Quote by MadderDoc View Post
Mm. In this 'before and after' image we see, to the left, the green box hanging on the wall in late 2010 -- and to the right, the same wall, photographed the day after the tsunami.



What looks like "Mickey-Mouse-Ears" under some conditions could be the upper ends of the scaffold, especially when these are covered by a net. Also possible, something is standing on top of the second scaffold-floor ... Osama?
elektrownik
#5494
May1-11, 05:14 AM
P: 296
From new nisa report we can see that all temperatures are going up...
triumph61
#5495
May1-11, 05:41 AM
P: 68
Quote Quote by zapperzero View Post
Wait, what?Are they talking about changing some of the fuel? To one with a higher gadolinia (gadolinium oxide) content? Where's a nuclear engineer when you need one? Or a Japanese translator?

Areva reprocesses fuel and makes sintered gadolinium oxide-uranium oxide fuel pellets. Are they involved in the cleanup because they were involved in the fueling?
My Post was delete.
Here is the Link
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...wPXPDYkknQed_w

Original:
http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu/f1-np/stat...u4_2010-j.html 11.29
fluutekies
#5496
May1-11, 05:53 AM
P: 32
Quote Quote by zapperzero View Post
Wait, what?Are they talking about changing some of the fuel? To one with a higher gadolinia (gadolinium oxide) content? Where's a nuclear engineer when you need one? Or a Japanese translator?
I'm not a nuclear engineer, but a process chemist, but AFAIK the fuel rods are not filled homogeneous with the same pellets. In order to control neutron flux and density in the core, pellets with e.g. Gd (neutron absorber) are placed in certain positions. Even the rods are not equal distributed in the core. The intention is to get a uniform heat distribution over the core. This seems to be a kind of "science" on it's own. Read it about some time ago, but can't find the source now.
Cainnech
#5497
May1-11, 06:24 AM
P: 10
Quote Quote by Uagrepus View Post
What looks like "Mickey-Mouse-Ears" under some conditions could be the upper ends of the scaffold, especially when these are covered by a net. Also possible, something is standing on top of the second scaffold-floor ... Osama?
Another copy of the photo of the "shadow" with a slightly better resolution.
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201103/r733167_5929130.jpg
Found it here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/photos/20...12/3162376.htm

I have no idea what it is, but to me it looks like some sort of rack or grid with kind of a tube on top...
Attached Thumbnails
shadow.jpg  
rowmag
#5498
May1-11, 06:35 AM
P: 209
Quote Quote by zapperzero View Post
Wait, what?Are they talking about changing some of the fuel? To one with a higher gadolinia (gadolinium oxide) content? Where's a nuclear engineer when you need one? Or a Japanese translator?
I'm neither a nuclear engineer nor a professional translator, but it says that in addition to the original 9x9 B-type fuel assemblies, it is adding 96 assemblies (also 9x9 B-type) which contain a higher proportion of gadolinia.
The original uranium fuel has a concentration of about 3-5% by weight of gadolinia, and the new fuel will have 5-7%.
The gadolinia acts as a neutron absorber, and will improve the ability to control reactions within the reactor.

Source:
http://www.tepco.co.jp/cc/press/10112901-j.html

Sounds like it might have something to do with what fluutekies is talking about.
default.user
#5499
May1-11, 06:47 AM
P: 28
http://youtu.be/kO0flpwmjJI

Can anyone translate this videos?

More on 77-year-old Michio Ishikawa of the Japan Nuclear Technology Institute on the situation at Fukushima I Nuke Plant, as he appeared on Asahi TV on April 29. [...]

“I believe the fuel rods are completely melted. They may already have escaped the pressure vessel. Yes, they say 55% or 30%, but I believe they are all melted down. When the fuel rods melt, they melt from the middle part on down.

“I think the temperature inside the melted core is 2000 degrees to 2000 and several hundred degrees Celsius. A crust has formed on the surface where the water hits. Decay heat is 2000 to 3000 kilowatts, and through the cracks on the crust the radioactive materials (mostly noble gas and iodine) are escaping into the air. [...]

[Later on] The show’s host says “But wait a minute, Mr. Ishikawa, you are a proponent of nuclear power and we expected to hear from you that everything is going well at Fukushima…”

Mr. Ishikawa answers, “Well, if I’m allowed to tell a lie…”
zapperzero
#5500
May1-11, 06:49 AM
P: 1,042
Quote Quote by rowmag View Post
I'm neither a nuclear engineer nor a professional translator, but it says that in addition to the original 9x9 B-type fuel assemblies, it is adding 96 assemblies (also 9x9 B-type) which contain a higher proportion of gadolinia.
Can't be. The number of channels in the core where bundles (assemblies) go is fixed, no?
~kujala~
#5501
May1-11, 07:03 AM
P: 110
Also these might have caused the spike in the underground water on the 20th of April in units 1, 3, 4 and 6:

Unit 2:
April 19th 10:08~ Started to transfer the stagnant water with high-level radioactivity from the trench of the turbine building to the buildings of radioactive waste treatment facilities.

Unit 6:
April 19th 11:00~15:00 Transferred stagnant water under
the base of the turbine building to the condenser for
measuring the amount of it.
http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/f...110430-3-2.pdf

As for the route from unit 2 to the waste treatment facility...

From these pictures one can see that the route from unit 2 trench to the facility goes through/near 2, 3 and 4 turbine buildings:
http://varasto.kerrostalo.huone.net/pump_route.jpg
http://varasto.kerrostalo.huone.net/pump_route_2.jpg

Here is the text related to these pictures:
http://www.ordons.com/asia/far-east/...ive-water.html

So if the hoses are leaking you never know where the water is going to end.

About the radiation in the number 6 building:

The operator of the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant plans to begin transferring highly radioactive water accumulated near the Number 6 reactor to a temporary storage tank.

Tokyo Electric Power Company, or TEPCO, is expected to start moving the water in the turbine house of the No. 6 reactor to the tank on Sunday afternoon.
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/01_15.html

Is the number 6 leaking also?
fluutekies
#5502
May1-11, 07:04 AM
P: 32
Quote Quote by rowmag View Post
I'm neither a nuclear engineer nor a professional translator, but it says that in addition to the original 9x9 B-type fuel assemblies, it is adding 96 assemblies (also 9x9 B-type) which contain a higher proportion of gadolinia.
The original uranium fuel has a concentration of about 3-5% by weight of gadolinia, and the new fuel will have 5-7%.
The gadolinia acts as a neutron absorber, and will improve the ability to control reactions within the reactor.

Source:
http://www.tepco.co.jp/cc/press/10112901-j.html

Sounds like it might have something to do with what fluutekies is talking about.
Found my source: The GE non-public document on BWR (originally posted somewhere else & linked deep down elsewhere in this thread ): http://cryptome.org/0003/ge-bwr6.zip see section 3 on core design and configuration & use of Gd-oxide.
zapperzero
#5503
May1-11, 07:07 AM
P: 1,042
Quote Quote by default.user View Post
http://youtu.be/kO0flpwmjJI

Can anyone translate this videos?
Yep. ex-skf did.
georgiworld
#5504
May1-11, 08:31 AM
P: 22
Quote Quote by zapperzero View Post
Yep. ex-skf did.
What about the video you posted and I mistakenly re-posted? Is there a translation of that?
rowmag
#5505
May1-11, 08:48 AM
P: 209
Quote Quote by zapperzero View Post
Can't be. The number of channels in the core where bundles (assemblies) go is fixed, no?
I think they meant that they were replacing some low-gadolinium assemblies with the new ones.
MadderDoc
#5506
May1-11, 08:56 AM
MadderDoc's Avatar
P: 698
Quote Quote by Jorge Stolfi View Post
Well, the mystery thickens.<..>
What was the date of the photo showin the Mickey Mouse ears?
It was March 11th, at approximately 16:00. It is a frame from the video shot from a helicopter shortly after the tsunami, see for example this version of the video:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhs...aftermath_news

There's perhaps disappointingly little mystery in it. If one takes account of the poor quality of the video from March 11th, and its being shot in a more oblique angle, it appears to be showing the same as the photo we have from March 12th:



Note: The image in the center has been subjected to the shearing/perspective tools of Gimp, in order to correct for the more oblique angle it was taken, so as to ease comparison.
rowmag
#5507
May1-11, 09:00 AM
P: 209
Quote Quote by elektrownik View Post
No way it would be extream radioactive, and it would melt without cooling.
About unit #4. This is possible that they were repleacting core shroud, reactor 4 was shout down and defueled becouse there was some crack in core shroud, so this would be possible that they were repleacing it. There is no much space, but look on this photo:
That is a water heater (pre-heater?) that is being replaced with a more corrosion-resistant type.
rowmag
#5508
May1-11, 09:03 AM
P: 209
Quote Quote by ~kujala~ View Post
As for the route from unit 2 to the waste treatment facility...

From these pictures one can see that the route from unit 2 trench to the facility goes through/near 2, 3 and 4 turbine buildings:
http://varasto.kerrostalo.huone.net/pump_route.jpg
http://varasto.kerrostalo.huone.net/pump_route_2.jpg

Here is the text related to these pictures:
http://www.ordons.com/asia/far-east/...ive-water.html

So if the hoses are leaking you never know where the water is going to end.
They did that on purpose, so that if the hose did spring a leak, it would leak into the turbine buildings instead of onto open ground.
(Source: the nightly news a while back.)


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