Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants

unlurk

From the U-Tube real time camera it looks to me as if most of the debris from the upper floors of #3 are gone.

Then there are these stills from last night (unless they are a photoshopped prank.)
http://twitpic.com/4unrpd


But not a peep out of anybody.

Sabbatia

Unlurk, I was watching about the time those stills were taken. it was odd because I'm used to the puffs of steam coming out regulary, but there was nothing. Then very suddenly 3 and 4 both got very busy. At first I thought it was fog because it can be pretty random, but then it cleared up enough to tell it was 3 and 4. I figured they had started giving them water again.

unlurk

Unit 4 looks to have some of it's junk taken off the top.

But I'm less sure of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck_KE...layer_embedded

Bodge

...Checks date - Checks webcam...

StrangeBeauty

I think we're in agreement here... I still don't believe there is an eminent danger of #4 as a whole collapsing, but would like to see evidence countering the apparent (new) lean portrayed by the live camera viewpoint. I've done some looking but haven't found as of yet. Anyone know of a daily satellite feed or aerial imagery? Barrel distortion is more often associated with wide angle lenses, not telephoto.

btw, looks like there's a new url for the live stream:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FptmoVcgpqg
atm not seeing anything from #3 and #4, and only a bit of white smoke from #2. Lots of atmospheric distortion from daytime heating (wavering images)...

pdObq

Interesting... I don't think there is a fire or anything like that. Could it be concrete dust stirred up by some part of the building collapsing, e.g. the remaining pillars on the sea-side? Or, if that's right after they started pumping water, maybe some kind of steam explosion?

EDIT: As for the mystery May 8th radiation release (supposedly opening of unit 1 airlock), I don't think these unit 3 events have anything to do with that.

EDIT2: TPS camera during daylight shows unit3 pillars on the sea-side are still standing.

MiceAndMen

What mistakes is he referring to? The release of the radiated water, or sharing of the information regarding it?

The wording of the translation is ambiguous, but my cynical side says this email looks like a caution to the concerned parties to keep their mouths shut.

pdObq

Uhh, yes at STP you are right that H2O usually prefers not to be in gas form.

But for my defense, I did not specify the temperature and pressure, but I wrote "H2O gas" ...

rowmag

I read the original as saying the opposite: keep "related parties" closely informed, and treat this matter with the great sensitivity, so as to avoid a repeat of the mistakes they made with the water-release.

Recall the water-release problem: they announced publically that they were dumping low-level contaminated water just before they had to do it, and got lots of complaints from fishing groups, neighboring countries, etc. They are saying to keep everybody who might be affected in the loop this time.

pdObq

Imho unit 4 is not leaning. An easy way to check would be to look if there is any difference in how unit4 appears compared to earlier footage of that TBS camera. Also there seems to be a lot of atmospheric distortion in those images. My personal impression is that unit 3 also appears slighlty tilted in those images sometimes. As for the one spot only, maybe there is some dirt on the their camera lens...

Assuming for a moment it really is leaning slightly, that could also be related to some discussion further up that the ground there might have moved during the earthquake, and the whole complex seems to have moved down from the point of view of the TEPCO webcam.

ernal_student

Yes. If I may, I would like to give you an unpolished translation (one that retains much of the grammar of the original) to give people who do not know Japanese a better idea (of course, we have to change the order of the parts of the sentence or the statement will be garbled to an English speaker):

"Also, (from now on, this is the issue of radiactive material being released to the outside,) I would like authorized people to share information densely/ closely/ tightly/ minutely, in a manner that does not repeat the mistake(s) on the occasion of emitting/ releasing contaminated water, to tackle/ deal with (the) high sensitivity."

Given that he uttered this in public, and given the many (even international) problems that the release of contaminated water have caused, he surely means that he would like those responsible to not repeat the error of the past, which was a lack of information, and to be aware of the sensitivities of other parties concerned.

(edited myself)

pdObq

I don't know about Japan and about the time when the units were built, but at least some (if maybe few) people did consider the effects of a possible hydrogen explosion, see the paper linked to in post #6055.

In general, I would also have expected that NPPs would be engineered a bit safer than that, but they survived the earthquake itself pretty well, as it seems. Too bad they apparently "forgot" about tsunamis...

NancyNancy

I have not figured out how to quote in posts here yet. In reference to #4 leaning over. I have more images, will have them online tomorrow morning and will also share them here.

I spoke with a couple of reporters in Japan again. One who has been reliable on lots of other information about the plant and has contacts with the workers and technical staff there told me a couple of things.

1. that is not an illusion on the TBS camera, they asked the technical crew running the camera, has a professional direct contact with them. Technical crew says the building is leaning over, it isn't a distortion of the camera lens.

2. the building is leaning over, confirmed it with workers at the plant. They have a company contracted to try to come in and install the cement pillars but didn't have word if that has started or is still in planning (or if it can still happen).

Sorry I can't provide further evidence on these two points. I am lucky to have reliable sources in the media in Japan and they put themselves at risk talking freely. I won't put anyone in possible trouble so take it as you will. These people have been days ahead and right on everything so far, so I am pretty confident in what I am getting for information..

robinson

The live feed went dead while I was watching it. Can anyone see it right now?

pdObq

Live feed works ok for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FptmoVcgpqg.

robinson

Thanks. That one is working.

pdObq

Interesting. Looking forward to those new images.

Is the building leaning towards the sea-side? Because the pillars on the south side look pretty much intact below the service floor. I don't think the inner structure such as the reactor and sfp are resting on the outside pillars (that's at least what I would hope), so that it wouldn't really matter much if the outer hull of the building is leaning, unless it is going to collapse and stuff falls into the sfp. Or is the whole unit supposed to lean from ground up?