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Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants

 
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May9-11, 10:06 AM   #6308
 

Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants


Quote by clancy688 View Post
Yeah, of course.

I think it's plausible that some tv producer added three loud booms to an otherwise "silent" video of a major explosion in a NPP. That helps to spice things up a bit, to "entertain" viewers so that they'll watch again next time.
Or just to make his own video stand out so that it's getting bought by foreign tv stations.
As I said, for me, that's very plausible.

But it's highly implausible that the same tv producer would add helicopter noise to an explosion video. Think about it, why should he do that? It doesn't spice up anything. Moreover, why should he replace three booms (if those are the real deal and were in fact recorded parallel to the video track) with boring helicopter noise? There is no logic in that.

So I'm guessing that the three booms are just ear candy, and that the "helicopter noise vid" from tagesschau is the real deal.
IMO, the original 3-boom audio is authentic, based on the analysis of the sound track and video. I can't imagine why anyone wanting to add ear-candy would choose a 3-boom audio with a lot of additional transient mechanical noises rather than a simple "boom". On occasion, it appears that the live video cam that likely recorded the event also records live bird songs. But das mach nichts, IMO. Not worth re-opening debate. Neither an authentic nor unauthentic sound track alters the principal theory of the explosion at Unit 3.
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May9-11, 10:09 AM   #6309
 
There's some more image analysis here,... from a while back but might be interesting to compare their evaluation of the data.

http://www.poudreinternetservice.com/photographs.html
May9-11, 10:28 AM   #6310
 
Quote by Jorge Stolfi View Post
There is software out there that will do this trick automatically; it is used to assemble panoramic photos from a series of ordinary snapshots (my cellphone does that).
Thanks, but I'm a bit ahead - I've found an astronomic one: RegiStax

With some limitations it works fine.

Ps.: yeah, I'm still just practising...
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May9-11, 10:54 AM   #6311
 
And now for something completely different: it is AREVA that supplied the MOX. I have not seen this stated here before.

http://dcbureau.org/201103151304/Nat...ber-three.html

Explains the deep involvement of the French gov't, regulators and AREVA itself in the matter at hand.
May9-11, 11:40 AM   #6312
 
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Quote by zapperzero View Post
And now for something completely different: it is AREVA that supplied the MOX. I have not seen this stated here before.

http://dcbureau.org/201103151304/Nat...ber-three.html

Explains the deep involvement of the French gov't, regulators and AREVA itself in the matter at hand.
Speaking of Areva, are they not due to have a 1200 ton/day water decontamination plant eunning on site by the end of May?
Has there been any evidence that work on this facility is even begun?

It is very frustrating to see a multi front problem attacked so very serially. It suggests that the strategy is to wait for natural decay to ease the problem.
However, the radioactivity measured at the various inland sewage treatment plants suggests the site is gradually worsening the local contamination.
So there is a tradeoff, delay means more lost land.
May9-11, 11:42 AM   #6313
 
Quote by Rive View Post
May I ask that what kind of software did you used for that?
In case you are still interested, the C programs I used (pnmprojmap, pnmfftfilter, pnmxarith) are in
http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/tem...2011-05-09.tgz
They are unix-based (gcc). You may need to hack the Makefiles to get them to compile in your system. The pnmfftfilter prog requires the FFTW library package (libfftw3.a, fftw3.h). The "-info' option of each program prints its manpage.
May9-11, 11:51 AM   #6314
v13
 
Hello,

Quote by Jorge Stolfi View Post
In case you are still interested, the C programs I used (pnmprojmap, pnmfftfilter, pnmxarith) are in
http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/tem...2011-05-09.tgz
They are unix-based (gcc). You may need to hack the Makefiles to get them to compile in your system. The pnmfftfilter prog requires the FFTW library package (libfftw3.a, fftw3.h). The "-info' option of each program prints its manpage.
I'm not sure what you're trying to do but you may be looking for hugin. It creates panorama images in the way you described it and can use multiple images to create an HDR version. I've created a number of panorama images but I did not have much success in HDR mostly because I'm not very familiar with that. It also does lens correction and can use different projections.
May9-11, 11:51 AM   #6315
 
about http://dcbureau.org/201103151304/Nat...ber-three.html

It has, and as it was to some extend irrelevant, there was not much discussion about it.
If I may, What part of the article make you qualify it as explanation of "the deep involvement of the French gov't, regulators and AREVA itself "
The article is no so much about AREVA involvement, and strictly speaking and GE is more involved..

The article is about Robert Alvarez saying MOX does not work , because its hot
"One reason proponents of MOX reactor fuel support its use is because, once the fuel is burned in a reactor, it is so hot that terrorists would not be able to steal a fuel assembly"

and

Because terrorist may use it "Reprocessing was abandoned by the United States in the 1970s because of the dangers of weapons proliferation."

No to mention it's a French thing ...

Point is this is not so much of about physics but much more about political and divergent economical interest.. And it has always been.. Here is a partially declassified (old) CIA intelligence report on French MOX http://cryptome.org/0003/cia-fr-pu.zip
May9-11, 12:18 PM   #6316
 
Quote by |Fred View Post
about http://dcbureau.org/201103151304/Nat...ber-three.html
It has, and as it was to some extend irrelevant, there was not much discussion about it.
If I may, What part of the article make you qualify it as explanation of "the deep involvement of the French gov't, regulators and AREVA itself "
So. I have been unattentive again. Sorry, real life keeps throwing me curveballs these days and my attention span isn't what it used to be.

I do not believe it irrelevant, even from a technical point of view. Tests of AREVA MOX fuel elements have ended badly in other places. There may be a common factor that makes them unreliable, such as, oh, say, French quality control (if you've ever owned a Renault you know of which I speak).

The article does not mention the involvement, but it has been visible and high-profile from day one almost.

Sarkozy was there specifically to talk about nukes, the French whatsitsname agency was first to break ranks and say that yep, Fukushima is a big problem indeed, Areva offered help early on and was accepted instantly (only the US achieved similar performance). I had been wondering why the interest - seems they're playing for the home audience as well, trying to look all grown up and responsible and efficient (la Hague has been a smoldering scandal in France since before it was put in operation).
May9-11, 12:46 PM   #6317
 
New pics of Fukushima NPP are released anounymously.
here, we can see it in slideshow.

http://seiga.nicovideo.jp/watch/sg21679
May9-11, 01:03 PM   #6318
 
Better-quality videos of the ventilation op and the sfp. Same content, so ignore if you're not into image processing.

http://martynwilliams.posterous.com/...4-latest-video
May9-11, 01:20 PM   #6319
 
Quote by clancy688 View Post
Yeah, of course.

I think it's plausible that some tv producer added three loud booms to an otherwise "silent" video of a major explosion in a NPP. That helps to spice things up a bit, to "entertain" viewers so that they'll watch again next time.
Or just to make his own video stand out so that it's getting bought by foreign tv stations.
As I said, for me, that's very plausible.

But it's highly implausible that the same tv producer would add helicopter noise to an explosion video. Think about it, why should he do that? It doesn't spice up anything. Moreover, why should he replace three booms (if those are the real deal and were in fact recorded parallel to the video track) with boring helicopter noise? There is no logic in that.

So I'm guessing that the three booms are just ear candy, and that the "helicopter noise vid" from tagesschau is the real deal.
Erm, you still seem to believe that it must be a production just because one video has helicopter noise and the other hasn't. Like I said, the explosion sound doesn't have to come from the supplier of the video. That does not mean it's not authentic. A different unit/person could have had an audio recorder running at that time, just no camera, or had the camera aimed at something else.
News channels usually pay for video and don't care much for the audio (when's the last time you had nobody talking on a news channel). So faking sound to make more money is rather unlikely.
May9-11, 01:29 PM   #6320
 
Quote by BlueCactus View Post
New pics of Fukushima NPP are released anounymously.
here, we can see it in slideshow.

http://seiga.nicovideo.jp/watch/sg21679
Could you please upload them elsewhere, in order to share them with non Japanese readers
that's about 80 pictures it seems
May9-11, 01:41 PM   #6321
 
A question for the brilliant people on this thread regarding the explosion in #3.

Assuming the top of the reactor building had filled with hydrogen and that the water in SFP had dropped considerably exposing and partially melting a portion of the fuel rods, would the force of the explosion down the SPF onto the top of the water act as if it was hitting concrete thereby pushing the force of the explosion back up taking the exposed fuel rods and assemblies with it?
May9-11, 01:55 PM   #6322
 
This seems to me unlikely, then again I'm not one of the brightest of the crowd
May9-11, 02:43 PM   #6323
 
Quote by AntonL View Post
But are they out of order? or is there something happening in the reactor that we are not supposed to know or deduce from their data, now look at the temperature plot, on the same day 8th April there was a sudden spike coinciding with the spike of the CAMS data
Could it be ... that the sudden spike of temperature on April 8th is somehow related to the nitrogen operation?

April 6th 22:30 Started the operation for the injection of nitrogen to PCV.
April 7th 01:31 Confirmed starting the injection of nitrogen to PCV.
http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/f...110504-1-2.pdf

Also by some strange coincidence this nitrogen operation might have messed with CAMS drywell?
May9-11, 04:03 PM   #6324
 
Quote by elektrownik View Post
OMFG did you saw CAMS data 3/14 for unit 3 ??? It is error or 100% of unit 1 core is damaged
Quote by pdObq View Post
You mean unit 1? Did you see D/W value for 4/8 ?

added: Does anyone have an idea at what level those sensors saturate or get damaged?
Quote by ~kujala~ View Post
pdObq, it's better to look the overall trend, not some big values every here and now.
For the unit 1 it mostly makes sense until April 7th 18:00 (31,1 Sv/h), then you suddenly get these mega values after which CAMS D/W(A) stops working.
I wouldn't trust the values between April 8th 0:00 - April 8th 13:00 for the unit 1.
Quote by pdObq View Post
Hmmm, the sudden high readings at 4/8 coincide with the sudden temperature rise of that N4B sensor (sorry, too lazy to put the japanese label into google translate). The other temp. sensors seem not to see that.
Quote by AntonL View Post
Now note that spike in Unit 1, and Tepco refrained from publishing any more D/W CAMS data after that event, their reports mention that the unit 1 D/W Cams is out of order, both of them the A and B channels

But are they out of order? or is there something happening in the reactor that we are not supposed to know or deduce from their data, now look at the temperature plot, on the same day 8th April there was a sudden spike coinciding with the spike of the CAMS data

I leave it for the experts to comment, was there a sudden small sub-critical event on the 8th April?
Quote by ~kujala~ View Post
Could it be ... that the sudden spike of temperature on April 8th is somehow related to the nitrogen operation?

http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/f...110504-1-2.pdf

Also by some strange coincidence this nitrogen operation might have messed with CAMS drywell?
I was not able to copy and past the Japanese sensor labels into Google Translate (pdf document does not allow copying [sure, there might be tricks..]), but awesomely enough Google Translate eats the whole pdf file and spits out translations for all sensor labels.
Wow, I am amazed... (even if the images are lost and the format gets screwed up)

http://translate.google.com/translat...s%2FilskVG.pdf

The N4B sensor translates as "Water nozzle N4B (end)". But still what does N4B stand for? Just some label on some schematic that we don't have? There is also some N4C on page two of the document. (Btw, those documents are awesome! Thanks AntonL!).
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